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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Has any one else noticed the increased testiness of Dr. Hartouni in these latter days? May i be so bold to suggest We're hearing now from The Make-Believe Perfessor but I suspect the Bizarro-World Ranter will come back soon. He's never far below the surface.
that the cause of this unease is not solely attributable to the need to spar through us morons to get his message out. Perhaps, deep inside that considerable mind their is an ongoing tussle between an ideology and a realization of the flaws of CO2 scientology as measured against reality. Just a thought-not worthy of comment. The Make-Believe Perfessor is not even slightly smarter on topics of motivation than he is on climate, physics, surveys, numbers, science or generally distinguishing between what's real and what is made up in his head. More reality-based people reading this thread understand perfectly well why Dr H sometimes gets testy.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Went out to study the effects of global warming.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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well a ship stuck in the ice certainly nullifies climate science as handily as the use of Caps and Bold type. good work .
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Basically, as a species, we are screwed. I could give a lecture on our hydrocarbon use, which we pay for in lives to keep it cheap at the pump. Why do you think that we still maintain a cold war level military, and spend it, along with lives, in third world sh#t holes that pose no physical threat to us?
No kidding. The U.S. is the third richest oil producing country on the planet and uses 25% of the world's production despite having 4% of the world's population. We waste so much oil. We pay for only part of it at the pump. The real cost includes a massive military presence in the Middle East, and stupid wars that we fight in third world shitholes for no good reason.
Our population growth, as a species, is unsustainable. Does anyone really think that the planet can handle the continued exponential growth?
If I can give any insight into this, you have to understand the nature of exponential growth. I promise that this is one of the best scientific lectures out there. I never really understood this until somebody sent me this link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=umFnrvcS6AQ
I suppose that people like Gobee are happy that there are more souls for Jesus, but I think that we are hosed. Here is global population growth:
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Four years worth of this thread and not one graph, number or anything else has changed. you must be referring to this one
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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I think that we are hosed. Here is global population growth:
The implications of exponential growth were among the first things noted by the Limits to Growth authors in their 1972 book based on experiments with a simple model of the world. Their basic conclusion was that if you have
(1) exponential growth, constrained by
(2) limitations in resource sources or sinks, but
(3) time delays between encountering limits and moderating the growth,
then
(4) overshoot and collapse will result.
In their more pessimistic runs, overshoot and collapse occurred in the middle or late 21st century. This was explicitly not meant as a literal prediction, however.
Their World 3 model was way simpler than the real world of course. At the time it was attacked as too pessimistic from both the left and the right, partly from utopian or cornucopian ideologies but also from sensible it's-more-complicated-than-that perspectives. Still, I'm not sure it has aged worse than its critiques, which themselves filled many volumes. Taken just as an if...then statement, The Limits to Growth remains pretty straightforward.
This small paperback by four Jay Forrester proteges was inflated into the bible of a vast conspiracy involving the National Academy of Sciences, United Nations, European Union countries and environmental organizations in one of Rick Sumner's loonier rants.
K-man, see the Club of Rome and it's bible, The Limits of Growth, for an answer to why the leadership of the NAS,the U.N, many European Union, and many environmental organizations are lying through their rotting teeth.
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dirtbag
climber
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The above post solidifies the FACT how this is all about the ideology of the entire aspect within the Climate Science scientism agenda.
Nothing more.
Thank you Larry Hamilton.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Very good presentation Dr. Hartouni
So Base and Chiloe what besides genocide is the solution to this population bomb? Can we get a handle on it without surrendering our freedoms to central planning authorities?
Are climate change mitagation scheme's a step down the road to surrender of the individuals freedoms?
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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So Base and Chiloe what besides genocide is the solution to this population bomb? You can't think of anything else, Rick? Quite the alarmist.
But in this and your other silly questions you're posing your own catastrophic solutions as if they were arguments that a problem can't be real. What Ed, Base and most scientists have been trying to communicate is that the problems are real, whether you chose to see them or not.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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So Base and Chiloe what besides genocide is the solution to this population bomb?
ultimately the solution simply has to be what CHINA has done in limiting every woman to only one child, with penalties for exceeding.
China was being crushed by their own exploding population and knew that they could not provide either the infrastructure or the jobs for the projected increase in population.
You can bet that your bible quoting go forth and multiply Republicans will of course scream bloody murder in opposition here in this country WHEN our time comes.
Like all species as Darwin said, human fate will ultimately be limited and decided by our environment, and that includes both land resources and also dealing with CLIMATE.
really, we can only hope that the Republican party dies off fast enough so that the needed changes can be put in place to insure the survival of life here in US - long term
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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what besides genocide is the solution to this population bomb?
Simple.
One solution, and one only: Education, especially of girls.
If women are better educated, they choose to have fewer children.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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chief,
Planned Parenthood has very little involvement, if any at all, in the lives of young women BEFORE they get pregnant in the first place.
They come to PP mostly if they are "poor" and for medical advice for their own health and information about STDs and contraceptions, and occasionally for an abortion.
the point is that your crowing contention that PP has this measured oversized effect on the birth rate in the Unites States is without merit
In addition, there has been for a long time solid evidence that yes, common sense, the more young women do get educated they are more likely to make more considered and responsible decisions about their own bodies and controlling pregnancies much better.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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The Chief,
yes, thanks for the link. From the link you posted:
"the rate [of unintended pregnancy] has increased dramatically among poor women, while among higher-income women it has continued to decrease substantially"
Which would seem to support exactly what I said, that better educated women (and increasing wealth correlates with better education) make better decisions about their lives than poorer, uneducated women.
This, too:
"“Poor women’s high rate of unintended pregnancy results in their also having high—and increasing—rates of both abortions (52 per 1,000) and unplanned births (66 per 1,000). In 2006, poor women had an unintended pregnancy rate five times that of higher-income women, and an unintended birth rate six times as high,” the new report showed."
Umm, what was your point, again?
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TLP
climber
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I thought the taxpayer funded education process was called things like "school" and "college."
Read at least one of the items linked above - preferably all of them, you can do this in a few minutes - and please explain what's wrong about their facts and analysis.
And while you're at it, please explain why anyone of any political persuasion would not be in favor of reducing the rate of population growth by equipping people, in this case female ones, to make choices out of their own free will.
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TLP
climber
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^+1000.
Since you are obviously not going to read any of these things, I'll spell it out for you: it has nothing whatever to do with education specifically about sexual behavior or reproductive biology, but about education in general, which results in making different choices about when or if someone decides to have children. Whether it's because it raises aspirations, enhances the ability to understand consequences, or what, can be discussed, but the negative correlation seems to have been well established in a wide variety of locations and social situations.
Don't just keep barking, speak to the actual point. Any new substance to add? Please do.
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dirtbag
climber
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Do they teach math and reading?
If they did, I would sign up Chief Idiot.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Talk about Fascist/Racists!
A few quotes from Planed Parenthood's founder.
The most merciful thing that the large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it.
[We should] apply a stern and rigid policy of sterilization and segregation to that grade of population whose progeny is tainted, or whose inheritance is such that objectionable traits may be transmitted to offspring.
Article 1. The purpose of the American Baby Code shall be to provide for a better distribution of babies… and to protect society against the propagation and increase of the unfit.
Article 4. No woman shall have the legal right to bear a child, and no man shall have the right to become a father, without a permit…
Article 6. No permit for parenthood shall be valid for more than one birth.
Give dysgenic groups [people with "bad genes"] in our population their choice of segregation or [compulsory] sterilization.
We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.
[The most penetrating thinkers] are coming to see that a qualitative factor as opposed to a quantitative one is of primary importance in dealing with the great masses of humanity.
Such parents swell the pathetic ranks of the unemployed. Feeble-mindedness perpetuates itself from the ranks of those who are blandly indifferent to their racial responsibilities. And it is largely this type of humanity we are now drawing upon to populate our world for the generations to come. In this orgy of multiplying and replenishing the earth, this type is pari passu multiplying and perpetuating those direst evils in which we must, if civilization is to survive, extirpate by the very roots.
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