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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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May 18, 2010 - 01:58am PT
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The fear that the scientists express about this inquiry makes it reasonable to suspect that maybe there's something fishy going on . . .
Thank you Joseph McCarthy . . .
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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May 18, 2010 - 02:49am PT
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Are Climate scientists in hiding as the northern hemisphere experiences the coldest spring in decades?
Coldest spring in 41 years
On TV I heard that this was the first time that it snowed this late in the year in Tokyo since 1969!
Late bloomer: The trees in Bushy Park near Hampton Court Palace, South-West London, have yet to bloom because of the cold winter of 2009-2010
Coldest winter in Tampa since 1969. Winter temperatures have been nearly 8 degrees below normal this year.
Coldest spring ever in California?
The fact remains, though, that CO2 continues to increase in the atmosphere, while temperatures are not rising. Even the official results for California show a colder than usual March.
For it to be colder than average is indeed puzzling, perhaps one could say that the cooling cannot be explained by increased CO2, and that is a travesty.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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May 18, 2010 - 06:31pm PT
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The fact remains, though, that CO2 continues to increase in the atmosphere, while temperatures are not rising.
Your first fact is true but your second fact is false.
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Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
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May 18, 2010 - 07:00pm PT
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Whats really amazing.,..... is that after all the discussion on this thread CC still doesn't understand the difference between climate and weather.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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May 18, 2010 - 07:05pm PT
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No, I think he's hit the wall on that concept.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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May 18, 2010 - 07:10pm PT
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blahblah:
He also makes lots of nice graphs that would be impressive if were still in elementary school.
For blahblah and all my other fans, some nice global-temperature graphs from today.
The occasion was NOAA's observation that April 2010 was the warmest April in their 120-year record.
I wondered how that compared with the other big datasets, and it was easy enough to find out.
NOAA/NCDC: last month was the warmest April on record.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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May 18, 2010 - 07:12pm PT
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NASA/GISTEMP: same story, last month was the warmest April.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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May 18, 2010 - 07:15pm PT
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Hadley CRU/HadCRUT3v: Not so much about April, although March 2010 was the 2nd-warmest
March in their 160-year record.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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May 18, 2010 - 07:19pm PT
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A real surprise came when I looked at the University of Alabama-Huntsville data. This project is
directed by an avowed skeptic and creationist (one of the very few active climate scientists who
discounts AGW), somebody who has made a big point of the fact that his satellite measurements
showed less warming than other datasets -- at least, before recent mistakes were corrected.
But now it turns out the UAH data are warming faster than anyone's. Last month was the
2nd-warmest April, and March was the 1st-warmest March, in their record.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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May 18, 2010 - 07:36pm PT
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But what's happening in the Arctic? There's our coal-mine canary.
After a late-winter freeze, Arctic Ocean sea ice extent seems now to be approaching closer
to the record-low 2007 melt season:
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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May 18, 2010 - 07:38pm PT
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Cryosphere scientists have long warned that it's sea ice volume, not the more visible
extent, that really matters. Now, ice volume is being tracked in real time too.
It's diving.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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May 18, 2010 - 08:20pm PT
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Hey Chiloe... Why no current graphs or current data of So Hemp Sea Ice or Antarctic Land
Mass Ice Content?
Chief, as a land mass surrounded by ocean (instead of an ocean surrounded by land) the
Antarctic has a whole different dynamic. West Antarctica is steeply warming and its ice
sheet losing mass; there is concern that the loss could become nonlinear as glaciers
above salt water retreat back behind their grounding point. East Antarctic temperature
trends have been less clear but the most recent papers find warming there too. The sea ice
that forms around the edges of Antarctica each winter largely melts again in the summer,
not analogous to the multiyear ice that until recently covered most of the central Arctic Ocean.
Steig et al. in Nature last year had a key article about recent Antarctic trends. I'll try to
find the color graphic.
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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May 18, 2010 - 08:49pm PT
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I think this is what Chiloe was referring to.
From Steig et al in Nature 1/22/09
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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May 18, 2010 - 09:51pm PT
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Thanks Wanda, that is indeed the Steig article I was thinking of.
Here's a NASA image to go with it. Note that even the pale blue regions are not cooling,
just "warming less."
Over the years, climate research in northern latitudes led researchers to believe that
the Arctic is where impacts of global climate change would be seen first. Less certain is
how climate is affecting Antarctica where inland temperatures are known to plunge to
minus 112°F, and ground-based weather stations have been sparse....
West Antarctica is particularly vulnerable to climate changes because its ice sheet is
grounded below sea level and surrounded by floating ice shelves. If the West Antarctic
ice sheet completely melted, global sea level would rise by 16 to 20 feet (5 to 6 meters).
http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/warming_antarctica.html
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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May 18, 2010 - 11:10pm PT
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Chiloe you still fail to understand that no one cares about your
beard-stroker climate papers, so tiresomely posted (again).
People care about the weather not Climate which is just an imaginary mathematical idea that collects dust in libraries and has no bearing on our lives. Weather is important, climate is just busy work.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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May 19, 2010 - 08:34am PT
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Please do explain this peer reviewed study which was published in Feb of 2008 (Concerning
Continental Land Mass Ice and not Sea Ice):
Chief, have you read the Turner et al. (2009) paper you cite? That paper (and your graph)
are, in fact, about the extent of sea ice. Which they explain thus, in the abstract:
Based on a new analysis of passive microwave satellite data, we demonstrate that the annual mean extent of Antarctic sea ice has increased at a statistically significant rate of 0.97% dec−1 since the late 1970s. The largest increase has been in autumn when there has been a dipole of significant positive and negative trends in the Ross and Amundsen‐Bellingshausen Seas respectively. The autumn increase in the Ross Sea sector is primarily a result of stronger cyclonic atmospheric flow over the Amundsen Sea. Model experiments suggest that the trend towards stronger cyclonic circulation is mainly a result of stratospheric ozone depletion, which has strengthened autumn wind speeds around the continent, deepening the Amundsen Sea Low through flow separation around the high coastal orography. However, statistics derived from a climate model control run suggest that the observed sea ice increase might still be within the range of natural climate variability.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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May 20, 2010 - 03:37pm PT
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Dr. F, why are you calling "Dr. Don Easterbrook, emeritus professor of geology at Western Washington University and author of more than 150 peer-reviewed papers," a liar?
After all, he is a scientist and therefore he is by definition beyond reproach and should never be questioned by a non-scientist.
Easterbrook's theory fits in well with what I've observed in Colorado: we had a hot spell (and drought) in the late 90s early 00s, but it's been cold and wet the past few years.
I guess we'll look back at the warm period as "the good old days."
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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May 20, 2010 - 06:32pm PT
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A discussion on some other boards, about why it is/isn't reasonable to make guesses about temperature anomalies in regions with no weather stations, got me to wondering (as a distraction from grading finals) ...
Mount Washington is about 130 miles from Boston. Also 6,000 feet higher, and many climate zones apart -- Mt Washington having famously cold, cold weather. So, how well could you guess monthly or annual temperature anomalies on the summit, if the only weather station you had was in Boston?
The answer is "pretty well," it turns out. I'm now trying to figure out what to do with this tiny piece of new knowledge.
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