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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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Apr 11, 2014 - 09:53pm PT
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...and sir, you are not worth the effort to type a reality based response to your nonsense.
Move along, get back to what you do best, sucking from the nipple that is rightfully yours.
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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Apr 11, 2014 - 09:54pm PT
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Because Hedgedesert is such a positive force HAHA
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Apr 11, 2014 - 09:56pm PT
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Well, that sounds like the rebuttal of a well-informed poster.
Because Hedgedesert is such a positive force HAHA
I responded to your points with substantive, verifiable arguments. Not insults or ad hominems. You "can't be bothered to respond" because you have nothing to respond with.
Move along, get back to what you do best, sucking from the nipple that is rightfully yours.
Ahh so poor shaming is your response. Well played, sir. Well played.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 11, 2014 - 09:59pm PT
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3.1 million
That's how many young adults can get coverage because of the provision in Obamacare that allows them to stay on their parents' insurance plans until age 26.
105 million
That's how many Americans no longer have lifetime expense caps, whether it's because they have chronic illnesses or because their insurance company set restrictive policies.
7.1 million
Obamacare enrollment reaches 6 million
That's how many Americans with Medicare Part D no longer have to go through the "doughnut hole" coverage gap. This means seniors can save more than $5.7 billion on prescription drugs
.
3.2 million
That's the number of small businesses estimated to be eligible for tax credits for providing health insurance to their 19.3 million employees nationwide, credits worth $15.4 billion in 2011 alone.
4.4 million
That's how many low-income adults will now have access to health insurance thanks to states implementing the expansion of Medicaid under Obamacare; an additional 5.8 million poor adults would be included in this count if 25 mostly Republican-led states weren't refusing Medicaid expansion.
50 to 129 million
That's how many people will benefit from the Obamacare provision that eliminates all bars for coverage based on pre-existing conditions. Studies say that anywhere from 19% to 50% of non-elderly Americans have health conditions that could qualify as pre-existing conditions.
49.4 million
That's how many current Medicare enrollees can feel secure knowing that, under Obamacare, existing Medicare benefits can neither be reduced nor taken away.
317 million
 That's how many Americans — i.e., all of us — potentially benefit from the requirement that insurance companies provide flu shots, HIV screenings, prostate exams, mammograms and FDA-approved contraception for free, without a co-pay.
Plus, we all benefit from new requirements that insurance companies must spend at least 80% of our premium dollars on our health care as opposed to marketing or administration.
We all benefit from the new requirement that insurance companies publicly justify their actions if they want to raise premiums by 10% or more.
We all benefit from knowing that our insurance can now never be capped or canceled at the whim of insurance companies.
really pisses you off, doesn't it?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 11, 2014 - 10:10pm PT
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No, what pisses me off is how distorted the figures you posted really are, Norton, and how false are the premises upon which the whole debate is framed.
I don't have time right now to respond in detail to your figures, but I'll just summarize by saying that "we" are really worse off than before, because the whole mess is costing much more than anybody dreamed, and it will just cost more and more and more. And it has NOT had all the blissful effects you tout.
Even if it had, it's wrong in principle. But I know that most of you guys care only for interpreted consequences rather than fundamental principles and rights. Yeah, we've been around that bush before.
Later.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Apr 11, 2014 - 10:16pm PT
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I don't have time right now to respond in detail to your figures, but I'll just summarize by saying that "we" are really worse off than before, because the whole mess is costing much more than anybody dreamed, and it will just cost more and more and more. And it has NOT had all the blissful effects you tout.
Again, except that it isn't. "Before" all the costs were hidden in inflated medical bills, higher insurance premiums and increased human suffering. Now the costs are more where we can actually see them. You can't just repeatedly argue that "it's costing us more" or "its unaffordable" when you have no actual numbers to back that up.
Even if it had, it's wrong in principle. But I know that most of you guys care only for interpreted consequences rather than fundamental principles and rights.
So the fundamental principle of "Americans should have access to affordable healthcare" is wrong? The principle that "if you can afford insurance you shouldn't be allowed to dodge paying your share" is wrong? Your answer to a person saying "I have a chronic illness that limits my ability to work and can't afford treatment that would allow me to work" is "well that sucks for you but we can't help you cause principles."
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 11, 2014 - 10:18pm PT
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So nothing changed, except everything became more expensive.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 11, 2014 - 10:20pm PT
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no, you have zero credibility when you make unproven assertions
extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs
so get on with it
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Apr 11, 2014 - 10:26pm PT
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So nothing changed, except everything became more expensive.
Yeah because health care costs JUST started going up.
Looks like Obamacare was passed back in 1980 or earlier!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 26, 2014 - 08:53pm PT
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Did y'all see today where Oregon said they are pulling the plug on their sign-up
site that didn't manage to sign up one person after they spent $248 MILLION on it?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Apr 26, 2014 - 09:39pm PT
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Yeah because they had Oracle do the contract for it. And nobody signed up because it never went live. None of the governments (including the feds) actually work on these exchanges. There is no "department of computer coding." They all contract out to the lowest bidder based on whatever rules they have for contracting and some of them (like the Feds) have really shitty contracting policies that ensure lumbering dinosaurs get the jobs. Luckily for Oregon, the Federal site now works.
In better news, Medicaid expansion may cost a lot less than the CBO originally though:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-24/medicaid-expansion-s-costs-may-be-less-group-says.html
Unfortunately, this is because about 1 million people that are eligible that they thought would enroll, haven't.
In better better news, the exchange subsidies are projected to cost 8% less:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=302976481
WASHINGTON (AP) — The Affordable Care Act's health insurance subsidies will cost a little less than previously thought, according to a new report released Monday.
The Congressional Budget Office predicts that health insurance subsidies under the so-called "Obamacare" plan will total a little more than $1 trillion over the next 10 years, instead of almost $1.2 trillion initially estimated.
CBO said the 8 percent cut results largely from tighter cost controls by insurance companies offering plans on health care exchanges. Generally speaking, the plans offered on the exchanges pay health care providers less and have tighter management of patients' treatment options, and that means lower premiums and taxpayer subsidies.
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slabbo
Trad climber
colo south
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Apr 26, 2014 - 09:41pm PT
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I'm trying to figure out how I am worse off..? i got cut because of existing conditions and had NO health care (plenty of bills) now i have health care (though pretty $$$$)
What was my option ?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Apr 26, 2014 - 09:52pm PT
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To die quietly by the invisible hand of the free market, obviously.
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