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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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Aug 28, 2013 - 04:09pm PT
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Ron, thanks for the info that the helmet was in the car!
The big question is, would not having the helmet have limited what Matt decided to do? If so, that might help narrow down the excellent list of possibilities that HighTraverse and others have been generating.
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tdg119
Social climber
Northampton, PA
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Aug 28, 2013 - 04:22pm PT
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in reading Matts past TR's. Yes, not having a helmet would have limited him.
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James Wilcox
Boulder climber
The Coast
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Aug 28, 2013 - 04:45pm PT
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Contact CARDA, give them the scenario, and ask if they know a trained team nearby that could help. Many are volunteers who donate their time and dogs to the cause.
My wife is scent training a dog right now(literally) and if she was further along with her dog I know she'd do it without expectation of being paid. They just love the search.
But searching crevices does pose an obstacle
Edit: @Ron. My apologies. I have read this thread on a regular basis, but I must confess, after so many posts I have forgotten some of the content covered. Carry on.
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tdg119
Social climber
Northampton, PA
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Aug 28, 2013 - 04:54pm PT
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We have tried contacting CARDA, and many others.
"CARDA cannot deploy on search missions at the request of family or friends of the missing person. If you are in need of search and rescue services, contact the appropriate local law enforcement agency.
Please read the prior post before posting, a lot of people are getting frustrated becasue we are going in circles. The dog question has been covered many times. SAR, MONO County, MLPD, YOSAR, INYO NFS will not issue/start a formal request without a known starting location.
Thank you, Ron
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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Aug 28, 2013 - 05:03pm PT
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in reading Matts past TR's. Yes, not having a helmet would have limited him.
Thanks, Ron and Tiffany! I really hope that can help Cragman, HighTraverse, and other climbers familiar with the area narrow things down.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Aug 28, 2013 - 05:10pm PT
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I think the conclusion that he went without his helmet because the car was locked away in the garage is invalid when you consider that he got the gear he chose for his objective (i.e. one tool, boot, crampons, pack) when he could. It's a safe bet he chose the gear he had with a particular objective in mind.
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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Aug 28, 2013 - 05:19pm PT
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I think the conclusion that he went without his helmet because the car was locked away in the garage is invalid when you consider that he got the gear he chose for his objective (i.e. one tool, boot, crampons, pack) when he could. It's a safe bet he chose the gear he had with a particular objective in mind.
Ksolem, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. I agree that Matt probably chose his gear with a particular objective in mind. If he had planned ahead to do a climb that required his helmet, presumably he would have gotten it from his car at the mechanics on the 16th.
(And yes, I'm also saying that if for some reason he was unable to get the helmet on the 16th, he might have modified his objective accordingly.)
As far as I know, Matt's helmet was found in his car; therefore he didn't have it with him (unless he had a second helmet, which no one has suggested).
All I'm saying is that his not having his helmet can help people figure out what his objective was.
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Paul S
Mountain climber
Portland, Or
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Aug 28, 2013 - 05:20pm PT
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I'm still unclear as to whether his lightweight trail shoes were found or are missing.
If all of his footwear was found in the campsite except his boots, he intended to climb. If the lightweight hikers are missing, he could have worn them to the start of the route and then switched into boots. Have the partners provided any input on his footwear choices for the climbs they did in the weeks prior? Did he complain about wearing boots on approaches? What about the helmet? Did he usually wear his helmet on these Sierra climbs? Would he have even attempted Ritter/Banner/Minarets sans helmet?
My theory is that Matt stashed his pack/boots/axe/crampons in an area around the campground and went for a run or hike. He may not wanted to leave those valuables in his vehicle or in the tent unattended. The perimeter of the campground should be checked - maybe his gear is stashed under a fallen log or something?
Is there any video surveillance from the laundry mat where he washed his clothes? Did he meet someone there?
Just trying to put myself in his predicament. Being in an unfamiliar town without transportation. Having all your stuff in your tent or in the trunk of your car. Doing laundry and visiting the library sounds like he was killing some time.
EDIT - helmet questions addressed above
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Aug 28, 2013 - 05:22pm PT
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All I'm saying is that his not having his helmet can help people figure out what his objective was.
Exactly my point. Upthread someone speculated that he didn't have his helmet because it was locked away in his car in the garage at 3 AM when he left to climb.
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tdg119
Social climber
Northampton, PA
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Aug 28, 2013 - 05:40pm PT
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@paul, his shoes are missing. It's as good as theory as any and a possibility. We don't want to rule anything out. Thanks for brainstorming this and your support - Ron
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MisterE
climber
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Aug 28, 2013 - 07:15pm PT
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It just struck me how oddly familiar this is to when John Rosholt went missing...
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
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Aug 28, 2013 - 07:29pm PT
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Aug 26, 2013 - 08:09pm PT
@Klimmer...
First...I want to say thanks for that link you posted (about dreams) a few pages ago. Haven't been able to get back on here till today. I appreciated the link. And I want to clarify something. I will restate I am not a psychic, have never wished to be one, etc. I have, in my life, had some weird dreams that have come to pass. Also want to say...I have never met Matt Greene in my whole life. I don't know Matt's sister, brother-in-law or any of his family or friends. My children attended the school Matt teaches at. And that is the extent of the knowledge I have of Matt and his family. I have a busy, very busy life and while I prayed for Matt and his family each night, I never dreamed that I would have a strange dream...about him. My head usually spins right before bed about all the things I will have to do tomorrow...but, my prayers were heartfelt and maybe that is why I dreamed it. I felt overwhelmed with that dream and it weighed heavy on my shoulders for a couple of weeks. When Matt's sister Tiffany went to a psychic, this is why I felt compelled to PM her and tell her of my dream. That is when I learned her husband also had a similar dream, probably earlier than I had mine. And later that evening, I learned of a former student of Matt's also having a very similar dream, after I had mine. I learned this through my son, who was told about the dream. So, this dream of the blue diamond/crystal (which is what was the common denominator) came from three different people who do not know each other, yet we all learned of the other's dreams. That is strange, and I still don't know what to make of it. All I know is that I held it inside for a while and feared that if it ever came out that he was near something I may have seen in my dream, well, I couldn't live with myself if I never divuldged that information. I don't want to cause a change in search plans. Whatever the blue diamond/crystal is... could be anything. Sometimes snow looks blue, could be a rock, water, something he was wearing, or something as simple as a blue diamond. Or perhaps, just a small clue that will lead to the next clue... I just don't know. But, where it seems to have led is to a pair of glasses that we can pretty much rule out as being Matt's. But the glasses have seem to have led to some National coverage, also. And they may not be his, but, maybe it's just the next clue... a silent voice, a picture of a pair of glasses hanging on a "hiking" sign... Maybe the glasses are just to tell us to "keep looking" and we will "see."
I tried to PM this to you Klimmer...but your PM is disabled. You are very passionate...and supportive and I felt like I needed to tell you these things.
Can another thread be started?:
Is it possible that all 3 people can separately write down their dreams in fine detail: RM217, Ron, and Student. Would the 3 of them be willing to do so and share them? Including what they first thought/experienced when they saw the images of the found glasses for the first time? Can another thread be started where the dreams are shared in detail including what the psychic had to say?
Without judgement or ridicule from anyone on ST, can this be done and shared?
I really think there is an answer there. I sincerely believe it was foul play.
Genesis 4:9-10
Proverbs 3:5-6
http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-dream-interpretation.html
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Alpineholydog
Trad climber
Spring Tx
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Aug 28, 2013 - 07:57pm PT
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I wish I had the ability to search it properly but given his equipment (cramons,axe,boots, no Helmet) and his ability.... I would have gone for Ritter doing Muir's route via the Ritter Banner Notch then Descending the SE glacier. Class 3 mostly. I think he would have felt comfortable with his gear and the hike. Plus it would be a great capper given he climbed Clyde. Kind of the Alpha and Omega of the area. Just thoughts.....
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KellyDoesntClimb
Social climber
Dunwoody, GA
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Aug 28, 2013 - 07:58pm PT
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https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zH95mGu2yK0M.k0POTplcpetE
I keep updating my map, going back and forth to Bing, Google Earth, National Parks maps, Chapter 12 maps and descriptions, etc.
RED shows places/trails I believe have been covered. Please let me know if locations or anything else is wrong and I will work on it.
I have some ideas/questions; on my map they are YELLOW. If any have been completed, let me know.
Trails:
Trail from Agnew Meadows TH to Starkweather Lake
Duck Pass
Trail from Ashley Lake to Iron Mt (check register/summit as well)
Trail to Superior Lake
Areas:
Grounds of Shadow Lake
Grounds of Olaine Lake
Agnew Meadows - was the whole meadow checked? Just the trail? Lower trail or Higher?
Grounds of Lake Ediza
Grounds of Superior Lake
Crystal Lake/Crystal Crag
...What about town? Baseball fields to the NE of his camp? The resort area? Have all Minaret summits been checked?
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Aug 28, 2013 - 08:01pm PT
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Chrystal Mountain comes to mind for the blue crystal dream. perhaps he went through there. Has anyone contacted Tom Browns Tracker Team? They know their shizzle.
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Alpineholydog
Trad climber
Spring Tx
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Aug 28, 2013 - 08:28pm PT
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Mammoth taxi says they had no contact with him for early ride from town up to trailhead. FYI
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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Aug 28, 2013 - 08:41pm PT
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Klimmer, if you want to make a separate thread, why not do so?
I do think you will have better results if you leave the sectarian material out of it.
ETA: Looks like Tiffany has started a thread for dreams and visions -- link is a couple of posts down.
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jeg
Social climber
center valley,Pa
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Aug 28, 2013 - 08:46pm PT
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High Traverse...
"I think the perimeter of the base of the cliffs (above the talus, below the glacier edges) from Iceberg Lake, going right to left, past Clyde and Ken, through South Notch, around Amphitheater Lake (base of Ken, Clyde, Eichorn, Michael and Adams minarets) and continuing around the west side of Adams and Michael to the west base of Eichhorn should be searched."
On 8/12 Matt's friends clibed from Cecile lake up through south notch and traversed to amphitheater lake. Searched both shores, climbed up to saddle between adams and michael and descended gully on other side of saddle. Then climbed back over saddle and climbed amph. gully, searched upper reaches of the 3 west gullies on michael. They did not search lower halves of the western gullies. not sure if that has been checked. If not good place to check.
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jeg
Social climber
center valley,Pa
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Aug 28, 2013 - 08:51pm PT
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High Traverse...
"I don't believe there's been a search of the "backsides" of the Minarets-Ritter-Banner but that would have been a real stretch for a day trip from the east side of the range.
Of course Matt could have fallen west from one of the saddles after coming from the east.
The west sides should not be ignored."
On 8/11 friends searched ...climbed from cecile lake up to Minaret glacier to north notch over north notch and down gully on west side. searched a bit around base of gully and gully behing dyer and dawson. That coupled with the search over the south notch was the extent of the search on the west side that we know has been done.
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