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WBraun
climber
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Jan 28, 2012 - 10:52am PT
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p.s. " in the end, the king and the pawn end up in the same box"
No
The king gets a gold box. The pawn gets a pine box.
You're a terrible observer ....
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BASE104
climber
An Oil Field
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Jan 28, 2012 - 12:29pm PT
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I saw that there is now a facebook page on chopping the Nose.
The only pitches that aren't on the free version are the Jardine Traverse and the Headwall pitch. Well, that traverse into the stovelegs.
The Nose is so freaking long that the short bolt ladders connecting the features seem short and reasonable. It wasn't like Harding threw in 15 bolts at a belay. The Nose is covered with pendulums to avoid bolting.
That and the Nose is right up there with the best rock climbs in the world. It is that good.
I have no opinion regarding the Compressor Route, other than I remember how it was widely disrespected. Mountain Magazine (a really great british climbing mag) really took it to task. Poor Maestri.
Then you have to remember the days. During that time the best line was regarded as the most direct line. Even if it meant spending weeks drilling a bolt ladder to the summit rather than swing 20 feet over to nab a crack.
Dolomites history. Perhaps someone could enlighten us.
This was what was really pissing Messner off. Drilling a bolt ladder from bottom to top isn't really climbing. Perhaps engineering would be a better term.
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BASE104
climber
An Oil Field
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Jan 28, 2012 - 12:34pm PT
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You have to realize that by now, many of the classic Mt. Blanc routes have been bolted.
The guides live longer that way.
Totally freaked me out when I saw a recent shot of the Cherie Coulour. That sucker eats natural pro. Now you need draws.
It seemed like it from the pic I saw, anyway.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 28, 2012 - 12:34pm PT
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Nobody is chopping the Nose.
There would be major ass kicking.
This is America the land of violence .....
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BASE104
climber
An Oil Field
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Jan 28, 2012 - 12:45pm PT
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Aww..I think the era of ass kicking is over. Why would you punch someone out over a climb? Not that it hasn't been done, of course.
I'll say it again, though. The Nose is probably in the top ten in quality of routes of its length in the world.
I dunno what it is with the Italians being the ones shouting the loudest over this. Certainly many Italians wouldn't have put up the Compressor route. I find it hard to believe that they are so vocal over it.
But Rolo. He is probably in a better position to comment than anyone.
I bet Donini is climbing down there as we speak.
I've seen pictures of the Ferrari route, and it looks like Alice in Wonderland. I know it is harder to get to, but it looks totally classic.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jan 28, 2012 - 01:13pm PT
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Knicker twisting and panty wringing has turned into thong strumming.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Jan 28, 2012 - 01:30pm PT
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Grab a shotgun - this thread is the living dead.
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Nick Cradock
Trad climber
NZ
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Jan 28, 2012 - 03:10pm PT
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I agree with Steve Schnieder. What a couple of tw#ts. I climbed the rte & summited in 1987, inspired by watching Bridwell & Brewer on the headwall in 1979. This was a historic rte. Maestri & co had no cams, no nuts, no lightweight gear, etc. Bet Kennedy & Kruz used some of the original bolts for the raps. They must have felt a certain sense of safety climbing their minor variation beside the bolts.
Seriously, are these guys members of the Tea Party, religous right, born agains? Their righteous fervour makes me want to puke.
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enzolino
climber
Galgenen, Switzerland
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Jan 28, 2012 - 03:33pm PT
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I agree with Steve Schnieder. What a couple of tw#ts. I climbed the rte & summited in 1987, inspired by watching Bridwell & Brewer on the headwall in 1979. This was a historic rte. Maestri & co had no cams, no nuts, no lightweight gear, etc. Bet Kennedy & Kruz used some of the original bolts for the raps. They must have felt a certain sense of safety climbing their minor variation beside the bolts.
Seriously, are these guys members of the Tea Party, religous right, born agains? Their righteous fervour makes me want to puke. Are you kidding man?
You are talking about a FERRATA!
F E R R A T A !!!!
Ask Garibotti ... he is THE Guru!
He is the saviour of Cerro Torre!
:-)))
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Jan 28, 2012 - 04:02pm PT
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Wasn't one of the reasons Bridwell And Brewer could be so inspiring on the headwall was because someone had smashed some bolts? Just asking.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jan 29, 2012 - 01:51pm PT
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Time to find another dead horse to beat. This subject has jumped the shark.
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pedrito
Trad climber
patagonia
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Jan 29, 2012 - 10:42pm PT
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These guys have no right to change any of that route. It doesn´t belong to them, the final decition they made. They are a couple of ass#!.. who follow somebody else's thoughts. The think they have changed the course of history, but they behaved the old way, not respecting the local climbers comunitty.
They have recently been declared "NON Wanted People" in te small village of El Chaltén. They should be ashamed of what they have done, dismissing a previous local agreement of not touching such an histotical route.
I know they will regrett some day... but know it's too late.
pp
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djb
Boulder climber
Syracuse, NY
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Jan 29, 2012 - 11:57pm PT
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absolutely ridiculous. how anyone could applaud Kennedy and Kruk is beyond me. Ever area I have climbed has local ethics on bolting. It was very clear before their attempt that local consensus was to leave the bolts. Their acts and explanation reek of lies, hypocrisy and obnoxious arrogance. Whether or not you agree in bolting, their act and explanation simply should not be supported. They potentially could have put someone in danger, such as Lama, who had expected the bolts to be there. makes me want to puke. and thank god Lama made the first true fair means free ascent!!! kudos to Lama for apologizing for his previous mistake and then taking away what Kennedy and Kruk thought they had. justice indeed. no doubt they are impressive climbers, but their legacy will forever be linked to this error. hopefully they will mature and one day apologize for their blunder. must have been brain washed by the likes of Ken Nichols, bolt chopping extremest, who had his car mega-bolted by those sick and tired of his idiotic, selfish, disrespectful and arrogant acts similar to Kennedy and Kruk's.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 30, 2012 - 12:31am PT
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absolutely ridiculous. how anyone could applaud Kennedy and Kruk is beyond me.
Must be above your pay scale?
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jan 30, 2012 - 12:36am PT
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"They have recently been declared "NON Wanted People" in the small village of El Chaltén. They should be ashamed of what they have done, dismissing a previous local agreement of not touching such an histotical route."
Really? Is this true? Can anyone else corroborate this?
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micronut
Trad climber
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Jan 30, 2012 - 01:40am PT
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Well done article.
Thanks for sharing that. It put some of the craziness into perspective. Every chapter in alpine history has its heroes and villains. I think that bolt ladder and compressor (like other historic alpine rubbish memorabilia) was a wacky piece of alpine history......
A scar on a grand mountain, yeah. Like the Cables on Half Dome or the Gallery Window on The Eiger. But in my not too important opinion, it should have been left until a local consensus of some sort was achieved. Great talent and a proud ascent for the guys. Maybe a bit of a poor decision, that was not theirs to make, on the way down. Either way, time will write the final chapter. It will be interesting to see all of their thoughts (on both sides) 20 years from now.
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sac
Trad climber
Sun Coast B.C.
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Jan 30, 2012 - 02:05am PT
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5.11 A2
Wow.
Wonder what they are calling their "variation"... er... route?
Any more details of FFA?
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Jan 30, 2012 - 02:27am PT
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this route is/was no freaking via ferrata. pisses me off when i hear that. just because donini says it is a ferrata, doesn't mean shite. it is NOT. the first eight pitches go up cracks with maybe 3 or 4 bolts on the first eight pitches, and probably placed after 1970. yeah, maestri didn't even break out the compressor for the first 8 pitches.
THIS ROUTE WAS CHOPPED BY ELITIST, FOR ELITIST, SO EVERYYBODY HAS TO RAISE THE BAR TO THEIR BITCHIN LEVEL, not because the route was so big an atrocity.
Pedrito, i did my best five years ago to save the route. i know you locals must be pissed off. i was there for the "vote" and i know it meant something. i know jason and hayden where lucky to avoid some real retribution in el chalten, care of the boys. a lot of people don't realize there are a lot of pissed off spanish speaking people down there. i respect your wishes to make them a non-wanted person in el chalten. i don't want them in my town either.
nick craddock, are you still alive down there in kiwiland, good to hear your opinion.
so yeah, i guess the route can go back up. just the way they removed the bolts and left the holes. a few removable bolts, some bathooking, and some genuine bolt replacement, although without any drilling. doesn't seem much harder than when bridwell headed and hooked past maestri's own chopped section to the summit. yeah, those choppers didn't hardly do shite, except stoke thier own ego's.
just some thoughts... ss
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enzolino
climber
Galgenen, Switzerland
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Jan 30, 2012 - 03:20am PT
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Shipoopoi ... Thanks ...
Sometimes, from climbing forum, it's hard to get what's going on in the place where events occur ... from Garibotti's posts or aticles it seemed like the consensus around the K&K action was broader and stronger also there ... but time is showing that is not the case ... the most locals were against the idea of chopping the Compressor's bolts.
By the way, I didn't know UIAA already established a norm about ethic in foreign countries ...
Article 4 – Visiting Foreign Countries
maxim
When we are guests in foreign countries, we should always conduct ourselves politely and with restraint. We should show consideration to the
local people and their culture – they are our hosts. We should respect local climbing ethics and style and never drill holes or place bolts where there is a traditional ethic against it or where no locally established ethics exists. We will respect holy mountains and other sacred places and always look for ways to benefit and assist local economies and people. An understanding of foreign cultures is part of a complete climbing experience.
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