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HermitMaster
Social climber
my abode
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Jun 30, 2016 - 12:15pm PT
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I think he's certainly 'sane' as I've plenty experience there. :) . I might not agree with him about much but boy is this fun to watch.
What I don't understand is why a few here apparently really "hate" him so.... He offers up his views without name calling or vulgarities.
And if you don't agree with him, so be it.
+1
I don't always agree with him. Trump is not my thing. But, Klimmer seems like a decent dude. Not at all like the brownshirt libs on this thread.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jun 30, 2016 - 12:23pm PT
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A "decent dude" does not harp on a woman being gay or bisexual.
But I do agree that much of the vitriol against Klimmer is more telling about those who write it than anything else.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 30, 2016 - 12:38pm PT
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Citing a blatantly racist website as a credible source is abhorrent.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Jun 30, 2016 - 12:40pm PT
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The Republicans are getting ready for Donald at the convention.
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-gop-delegate-insurrection-20160627-snap-story.html
As Republicans move closer to their convention in Cleveland next month, a growing faction of delegates is campaigning to block Donald Trump from securing the presidential nomination.
The multi-pronged effort — which includes outreach to individual attendees, national television ads and even a lawsuit — aims at a long-shot goal. They want to allow the 2,472 delegates to vote for whomever they choose instead of casting ballots according to the results of the state primaries and caucuses, in which Trump won the most votes in a crowded field of contenders.
Backers of the block-Trump efforts say such extraordinary measures are necessary in light of Trump’s declining poll numbers, anemic fundraising and penchant for inflammatory rhetoric, all of which, they say, leads to self-inflicted cycles of negative news stories.
And they are buoyed by lingering unease in the GOP about the presumptive nominee. An NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll released Monday found 52% of Republicans weren’t satisfied with Trump.
“The convention is not a coronation. They were never meant to be,” said Steve Lonegan, a New Jersey-based Republican operative who is working with Courageous Conservatives PAC, one of several groups calling to “free the delegates.”
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 30, 2016 - 12:43pm PT
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The K-man is either a troll, which explains almost everything, or a person with strongly held "beliefs". They are so strongly held, that all evidence to the contrary is completely ignored. For someone claiming to be a "science teacher" I find that very odd, so I am going with troll.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Jun 30, 2016 - 12:51pm PT
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Happiegrrrl2 posted
A "decent dude" does not harp on a woman being gay or bisexual.
But I do agree that much of the vitriol against Klimmer is more telling about those who write it than anything else.
Two excellent points Happie. I appreciate your thoughtful posts.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Jun 30, 2016 - 12:56pm PT
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I don't think he's an evil guy. I tried to send him some wine a while back but he never pm'd his address.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jun 30, 2016 - 12:59pm PT
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The K-man is either a troll, which explains almost everything, or a person with strongly held "beliefs". They are so strongly held, that all evidence to the contrary is completely ignored. For someone claiming to be a "science teacher" I find that very odd, so I am going with troll.
There are plenty of people who believe in contradictory things. There are plenty of scientists who believe a man in Rome with a strange pointy hat hears voices and talks to _od.
If people were 100% rational there wouldn't be anyone climbing huge rocks and chunks of ice for fun.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 30, 2016 - 01:07pm PT
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As Republicans move closer to their convention in Cleveland next month, a growing faction of delegates is campaigning to block Donald Trump from securing the presidential nomination.
If the repubs follow through on this sort of thing, they will lose any credibility they might have left after a process that produced Trump as the presumptive nominee in the first place.
I see Trump as simply the repub-on-the-street's fist-pump in the face of the repub establishment. What will that establishment have left if it entirely ignores its rank and file voters?
What's disheartening to me in this election cycle is that the nation appears pretty evenly split into two mobs, neither of which is thinking very critically about their respective candidate and their side's process that resulted in such horrific nominees.
These are the best that both parties have to offer us?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 30, 2016 - 01:08pm PT
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Excellent observation, fear.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Jun 30, 2016 - 01:09pm PT
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Damn Klimmer, you sure have all the answers. How do you know so much? Is your brain ever full?
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jun 30, 2016 - 01:11pm PT
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These are the best that both parties have to offer us?
The secret is there aren't two parties....
Shhhhhh.....
But everyone loves a team so it works.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Jun 30, 2016 - 01:15pm PT
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I hear every "investigation" and "scandal" about the Clintons is based on well founded truths and hard proven evidence, confirm/deny.
All of these allegations suffer from the "throw everything against the wall and see if something sticks" problem. Eventually people just stop believing any of it so when something does happen, like Clinton not using her email properly, people just don't care that much. It also trivializes rape when the only time large portions of America seem to care about it is if it is going to make one of their opponents look bad.
The secret is there aren't two parties....
This and other popular myths can be read in my new book!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 30, 2016 - 01:42pm PT
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All of these allegations suffer from the "throw everything against the wall and see if something sticks" problem.
That's one interpretation. Another is that Clinton is one solid wall of "appearance of evil," so much so that rational people simply can't believe that "none of it is true."
Surely you can't deny the appearance of evil in Clinton's quite apparent speeches-for-favors (and refusal to release transcripts) routine on Wall Street. Surely you can't deny the appearance of evil with the Clinton Foundation's ties to Clinton as SecState. And the litany goes on.
This is a woman (actually married couple) that have decades of bad judgment regarding activities that clearly appear to be corrupt. If they in fact have never done anything as corrupt as they appear to be, that strikes a rational mind as both amazing and as further solidifying the badness of their judgment regarding appearances.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Jun 30, 2016 - 01:54pm PT
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madbolter posted Surely you can't deny the appearance of evil in Clinton's quite apparent speeches-for-favors (and refusal to release transcripts) routine on Wall Street. Surely you can't deny the appearance of evil with the Clinton Foundation's ties to Clinton as SecState. And the litany goes on.
People see what they want to see and politics these days is all about Swiftboating everything. Turning strengths into weaknesses. Clinton didn't invent the overpaid speech circuit, she just took advantage of it like everyone else at her level is. Vanilla Ice makes $15,000 to show up places. Vanilla f*#king Ice. Just because Clinton doesn't make great choices about her image and is defensive about her personal life after 30 years of literally being accused of murdering people doesn't mean that she's hiding criminal activity. Clinton's speeches to Goldman are probably full of the kind of adulating garbage one would expect to hear from someone you're paying $250,000 to come talk which, unfortunately, is also the kind of stuff that makes you look bad when you're running against a socialist. It might have been smarter image-wise to release them, but maybe not. In either case, there is literally nothing to support that she received "cash for favors."
madbolter posted This is a woman (actually married couple) that have decades of bad judgment regarding activities that clearly appear to be corrupt.
Wait, the bar for getting someone to retire from politics is to make them APPEAR corrupt? Really? Obama appeared to be a Kenyan Muslim terrorist sleeper agent. Case closed I guess?
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Jun 30, 2016 - 02:07pm PT
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That's one interpretation. Another is that Clinton is one solid wall of "appearance of evil," so much so that rational people simply can't believe that "none of it is true."
Proof only that repeating the same lies over and over again does work. Some people start believing the lies.
Curt
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jun 30, 2016 - 02:27pm PT
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People see what they want to see . . .
Which is why I'm a Bayesian statistician, but that's another story.
The presumptive nominees of both major parties have so many negatives it's easy to overlook all the flaws of whichever candidate we support as the lesser evil. From my perspective, Trump offers an egomaniacal racist whose economic policies would create a disaster, and whose business record is, at best, mediocre considering how much money he inherited. On the plus side, his proposed SCOTUS nominees are excellent.
Then there's Hillary Clinton, who thinks rules for everyone else don't apply to her, who has shamelessly stonewalled investigations into her illegal email server and her lies to the American People about the Benghazi attacks, and expects everyone to ignore her actions. If a Republican office holder did the same things, he or she would be impeached. Oh, wait, he resigned.
Her judicial nominees would be disastrous for the rule of law, and could take a decade or more to undo. "Carter's Little Liver Pills," as we called his appointments to the Ninth Circuit, proved rude, arrogant and lawless, and took about 20 years to cycle out of the circuit. That's really about the only area where Trump has an advantage for someone with my world view.
On the plus side, she listens to other smart people, doesn't encourage the overt racism that Trump does, has a better understanding of foreign trade and foreign affairs generally (at least when not forced to deal with Sandersnistas), and says really dumb things only about once every three years (e.g. "What difference does it make now," "Businesses don't create jobs," or "I'm not saying home baking cookies.") Trump says really dumb things hourly.
Some choice! Nonetheless, when I put all the factors together, it's no contest. Even with all her flaws, Hillary is so much better than Donald that I simply have no choice if I care about our future.
John
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 30, 2016 - 02:33pm PT
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Wait, the bar for getting someone to retire from politics is to make them APPEAR corrupt?
No, and you know that I'm not saying this.
But you are not being totally honest about how thoroughly and in how many different contexts Hillary has pushed the boundaries of "appearance of evil."
Let her release her speech transcripts, and she just might disarm that one.
Or, as many suspect, the truth of the promises she made behind closed doors (for massive amounts of cash) would be damning.
Nobody "makes her appear" corrupt. She's doing it to herself.
If it's all nothing but a "right wing smear campaign," then why hasn't Obama gotten 1/10 of it? With Clinton, all you see is smoke! It's natural for any rational person to question: "Really? Seriously? Not even a flicker of a flame anywhere?"
People "defending" Clinton by trying to minimize the scope and quantity of her "smoking" events will by necessity fail to understand how she appears to those with legitimate questions to ask. And it's her own bad judgment that has attached that appearance to her.
Of course the right is going to circle like sharks: Blood in the water! Let's eat!
But SHE is the one that's been chumming.
Same with Trump!
And here's the left: Blood in the water!
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jun 30, 2016 - 02:44pm PT
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Nobody "makes her appear" corrupt. She's doing it to herself.
Quite true. Her consistent refusal to come clean makes her appear untrustworthy. Her spin doctors don't help, either.
As just one example, consider how her team tries to make her email server use no different from what others did. Most people paying attention know that she set up a private email server for all her communication, and refused to use the State Department email server, in contrast to Powell, Rice, et al., who would send an official email via private server once in a very great while. Trying to say that Clinton, Powell and Rice all treated official emails the same makes the person saying that out as a liar.
Then, just within the last week, we find that she withheld relevant emails contradicting her previous testimony. To date, everything her spin team said about her email problem has needed retraction, correction, or augmentation except the last thing she said. That probably will be contradicted when the next piece of evidence shows up. These aren't the actions of honest people, and they certainly don't make objective observers conclude that she's trustworthy.
I can tell you from almost 40 years experience that when a witness is confronted with contradictory testimony, it doesn't go very far to say the other person lied, particularly if the witness has to say that about multiple other witnesses. If they expect to be vindicated because the trier of fact believes the other side lied, they better offer some objective proof. the "repeat the lie often enough and people will believe it" line doesn't cut it for any except those who willfully refuse to see any downside to Hillary Clinton, because their only counterargument has been either naked denial or clear distortion.
Nonetheless, I think the majority of voters everywhere see her dishonesty as less of a problem than Trump's active and potentially devastating stupidity. I still think Lincoln was right - you can't fool all of the people all of the time. I have yet, however, to see a reliable cure for stupid.
John
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Jun 30, 2016 - 03:05pm PT
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Hillary Clinton, who thinks rules for everyone else don't apply to her, False. Yes, you can find an example or two, but, on balance this charge is false.
her lies to the American People about the Benghazi attacks What a whopper. Flat out false as proved by the latest (8th) "investigation". And the e-mail to Chelsea is not a smoking gun.
If a Republican office holder did the same things, he or she would be impeached. False. Baseless charge.
Her judicial nominees would be disastrous for the rule of law False. Again, partisan speculation.
Even with all her flaws, Hillary is so much better than Donald that I simply have no choice if I care about our future. True.
Specious reasoning leads to a logical conclusion. Good enough, you pass.
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