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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Jan 24, 2009 - 01:33pm PT
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Philo, you talked about other victims of the Nazi holocaust (how about over 20 million dead Soviets/Russians, no wonder it took them so long to move on?). In part, about these other groups, you said:
"But the survivors of those other groups have for the most part moved on. They are not attempting to hold the world hostage to their tragic past. They are not ramming the past down our throats when ever anyone questions their actions."
What you've described is the core of the problem with the Palestinians. In the modern era, war has gone on now for 60 plus years in the Middle East. Do the Palestinians really think they are going to "reconquer" all of Palestine? They never will.
So, why don't the Palestinian people (to use your words) move on? Why are they "attempting to hold the world hostage to their tragic past," and "ramming the past down our throats when ever anyone questions their actions?" As you point out, other nations and people have done just this and are now thriving.
The Israelis aren't blameless, they suffer from similar thinking. Way earlier in this thread I described what they should do:
"Israel: withdraw it's absolutely mindbogglingly stupid settlements from the West Bank. Understand that they're dealing with a society that might not be able to "give" first, and unilaterally declare peace for a period of at least years. Take attacks if they come. Open the borders, come what may. Let Gaza act like an independant country, even start trying to help with economic development, trying to help create Palestinian prosperity. Make the world know that Israel, at least truly wants peace, and that it is willing to "take it on the chin" in order to get it. "
Why can Philo see how other groups of people have moved on in the past, but he can't see that Palestinian refusal to do so is part of the problem? The Palestinians would rather embrace hate. As long as they do so there will never be peace.
I'm gone now for the rest of today; let's talk more later.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 24, 2009 - 01:37pm PT
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Philo, you keep proving to be nothing more than a propagandist.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Jan 24, 2009 - 02:12pm PT
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Or at least a stable welfare state that isn't a proxy battlefield.
(Gotta start somewhere.)
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jan 24, 2009 - 02:16pm PT
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The difference is that, except for the Gypsies, the other survivors have countries where they live in peace and self determination and not under a strangling occupation.
And Mntyoung I clearly remember that earlier post because I found it to be the most insightful and fair of your posts. Please take some time to educate yourself about the realities of this occupation. Look at Hebron for one example. Then you might beging to understand or at the very least have an increased sense of compassion for the plight of the Palestinians.
No Jeff not you.
Well got to go now so y'all flame away.
I hope some of you actually realize my comment about dancers was indeed "tongue in cheek".
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couchmaster
climber
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Sep 12, 2014 - 12:40pm PT
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It's interesting to look back and read responses to people whom are no longer here and thus have totally invisible posts. Fattrad and Coz for instance. I particularly enjoyed this post from 5 years ago to Coz. Since that time Al Jizem has been bought and sold and is publishing a Westernized version which is much mellower. The Hama's charter, of course, still calls for the Jews to either die or at least swim out into the Mediterranean to some other place, but Al Jizem is not so obvious these days.
"I read Al Jeezera and from what I read they are saying is it looks like they only want Israel gone and the Jews there dead if they are not gone. Dead and gone. Gone and dead. Their women and children too. That's what it appears they want. Then when the land of Israel is no more, they will have peace. After the Jews are dead and gone. Then peace. Of course they say they don't believe in targeting civilians, yet 90 percent of their actions counter that lie. They often recruit walking bombs to walk into a crowded public spot and blow up all the men, women and children that are there. They toss rockets that have no guidance controls right into cities. Hoping that there are many deaths.
Interestingly, the US killed hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of civilians during WW2, many many many women and children. We killed the kids, dogs and even their goldfish and pet birds too. We burned their homes and leveled cities in at least 3 continents, maybe more. We killed them all. Yet rare is the apologist saying we should NOT have fought at all. During the last war, which is still going on, we killed and continue to kill women and children too. We try hard to not do this, but it is unavoidable. War sucks. Peace is the answer to avoidance.
-However-
There are 2 sides to every story, in this case there may be 5 or 6. I hope for peace there as well: as do ALL OF US HERE, but it takes 2 to tango and 2 to become friends. Perhaps the Lion will not lay down with the lamb anytime soon: in which case, you have to choose a side. That is what many here have done. That is what the US has done. Obama has been very silent on the invasion. He too, will eventually choose a side Coz. That side will be with our friends in Israel. He too, will hope for peace.
But that takes 2 sides. "
Don't know why some people think it's OK for the Palestinians to try and kill jews every day of the year but when the Jews finally respond in kind and much more efficiently in defense of their very lives, those same folks bitch and cry about it. If the bastards did that to the US, say, lob missiles daily into Los Angeles from Tijuana, it would be right after the first warning to stop it that they ignored, we Americans would totally and brutally annihilate them in one fell swoop and thus the attacks would end. We wouldn't tolerate it and neither should the Israelis. Maybe someday in my lifetime the attacks will end and the Jews can finally live in peace. I wish all of them the best, including those Palestinians getting stuck in the middle of this who seek peace as well.
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Avery
climber
NZ
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Sep 12, 2014 - 08:02pm PT
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I'm 100% behind you, philo.
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Psilocyborg
climber
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Sep 12, 2014 - 08:51pm PT
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peh....its ALL propaganda. Thats the name of the game.
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couchmaster
climber
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Sep 15, 2014 - 08:47am PT
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Yeah? Think so? You really believe that "its ALL propaganda" I wholeheartedly disagree with you about that. People thought Hitlers schtick was "only" propaganda too. If we have learned anything from history it's that words have meaning. Meanings which often predate reality. We ignore them at our peril.
Edit:
ps, all of you - stop saying and using the term "Sand Niggers". It's super stupid and needlessly racist and very polarizing. If you can't say that sh#t in public without getting your ass kicked then don't say it here.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Sep 15, 2014 - 11:10pm PT
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No one here seems to say what needs to be said who is this guy some hero ?
To who ?...?..(a fudge packer)like that one locker! a kick to the taint
did he once climb so great or get all the girls
Me thinks a nazis is he
I know a thing or to about hate and this
Fthe Jews oh that's just great
Yes they are a narsicist state but you can not
Possibly equate the shite that (a name that locker flamed me for)
The sand niggers ex camel jockeys steal the teeth from your mouth while you sleep who target civilians and hide behind hospitals, children's schools and mosques as a rule
The cowards can not admit that left every chance to change the game for forty years the money of the 4th rieche and taking aim at old hate has left them to this nihilist state
Peace.? sCUMBAG(or whatever that original posters name was/ is)
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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The latest, killing a medic with both arms raised
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/06/gaza-grief-pain-slain-angel-mercy-paramedic-180602143958100.html
According to WIKI, this is a war crime under the Geneva Conventions:
"Medical Neutrality refers to a principle of noninterference with medical services in times of armed conflict and civil unrest: physicians must be allowed to care for the sick and wounded, and soldiers must receive care regardless of their political affiliations; all parties must refrain from attacking and misusing medical facilities, transport, and personnel. Concepts comprising the principles of medical neutrality derive from international human rights law, medical ethics and humanitarian law. Medical neutrality may be thought of as a kind of social contract that obligates societies to protect medical personnel in both times of war and peace, and obligates medical personnel to treat all individuals regardless of religion, race, ethnicity, or political affiliation. Violations of medical neutrality constitute crimes outlined in the Geneva Conventions."
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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My first visit to this thread is tonight & I have only looked at the first 20 & last group of posts.
However!
I find myself somewhat-amazed this thread never got nuked by ST management, when so many less-offensive threads did get nuked.
ST management!
Please nuke this thread.
Thank you.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Just another Euro Colony of Murderers. Nothing new.
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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thank you Philo.... well put
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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No anti Semitism here. Though I am Christian I have more than half jewish blood. What happened to the jews in ww11 was more than horrific. I completely understand the thought process in 47, 48 that the Jews needed a safe place to live so the Britts and US supported them in taking the land by force of arms. Two wrongs do not make a right... The palastenians got royally screwed and they need a place to live safely as well. there will never be peace there without a two state solution. terrible things have been done on both sides but at the end of the day the isralies took the land by force and subject the arabs to some pretty harsh un sustainable living conditions... the arabs fight the isralies because that is what you do when you get invaded and suppressed... Lose, lose situation for everyone...….
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