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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Sep 13, 2009 - 01:39am PT
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9-12
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WandaFuca
Gym climber
A survey where 68% preferred this Fuca over others
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Sep 13, 2009 - 01:46am PT
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One thing I don't understand; why are all these conspiracy theorists still ALIVE.
If THEY are so powerful, how is it that these theories are ALLOWED to propagate.
The only believable conspiracy theorist is an assassinated conspiracy theorist.
If THEY murder you I might be swayed . . . maybe.
Obviously, the REAL conspiracy theories have not been discovered yet . . .
. . . or maybe THEY buried the discoverers in a desert somewhere . . .
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mason805
Trad climber
East Bay, CA
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Sep 13, 2009 - 02:03am PT
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They either let those theories live because they are so absurdly out of this world that the general populace, lulled into complacency, could never believe them.
Or, like this latest conspiracy theory that there is a NWO and they want to take over the world, they simply embrace it on CNBC and other news channels. They make it vogue by acknowledging it as if it was part of everyone's everyday lives.
If you haven't watch CNBC powerlunch in the last 6 months and seen them talk about "How to make money in the New World Order"
2 minutes and 46 seconds in: "Crisis is a great opportunity to create a New World Order" - Henry Kissinger, former Secy of the State interviewed on CNBC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD3BqK-9ZiU
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Doug Buchanan
Mountain climber
Fairbanks Alaska
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Sep 13, 2009 - 03:56am PT
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"Conspiracies" are merely self-serving lies attempted by two or more people.
Therefore there are obviously millions of conspiracies afoot at any moment. So to dismiss conspiracies because they are conspiracies, identifies a fool who is ignorant of words that hold their meanings.
But conspiracies are, and create, contradictions. Humans hold no ability to sustain a contradiction, by design of the universe, including the human mind. That which is not, is not.
Therefore you can dismiss conspiracies in relation to ultimate success, or in relation to one entity orchestrating a conspiracy that extends beyond the simpleton nature of power-damaged minds.
But lies easily fool fools who ask no questions, and those who do not have the time to identify or question any particular contradiction, for a long time.
"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains taken to bring it to light." George Washington. Truth ultimately prevails anyway, by design of the universe.
Therein recognize that, after all questions are asked, answered and verified, the flu vaccine thing probably includes some of which you would appreciate, and some of which you would not appreciate.
Offer the information you have learned or perceived, for others to consider, in your preferred style, but wisely ask many questions of what you upload before you upload it, and answer your questions, because others may ask those questions and identify those you failed to ask, identifying your ignorance.
And as to the matter of my countless examples of ignorance, for lack of time I was willing to let Osama bin Laden APPARENTLY claim and accept credit for the most brilliant military attack in military history, more brilliant than the Trojan Horse.
I acknowledged the more obvious, increasingly proven US government involvement, but still considered that Osama planned and facilitated the initial effort that the feds merely knew of and magnified.
Ooops. More visible evidence is coming to light, that Osama had nothing to do with it, and died years ago....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1212851/Has-Osama-Bin-Laden-dead-seven-years--U-S-Britain-covering-continue-war-terror.html
Interesting. Seemingly verifiable.
If that is true, and time will reveal the truth, after many highly beneficial vaccine programs created the cover for another self-serving US/any government Black Flag Operation, the current flu vaccination (or the next one) may not be as suggested by the "believe the government", "disbelieve the conspiracy folks" crowd.
Between believing any inherently corrupted government, and an individual of any quirk, the quirk is statistically more credible than the corrupted. Regardless, the data is verifiable with enough questions.
Be cautious with your guesses. All of them will eventually be laughably wrong. The humans are using less than a metaphorical micron of the available data.
If you are not enjoying the human comedy, you are missing the best show on the rock.
DougBuchanan.com
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Doug Buchanan
Mountain climber
Fairbanks Alaska
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Sep 13, 2009 - 02:53pm PT
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So not long ago a climber mentioned the medications the climber was prescribed and taking, for major injury recovery after a multi-broken bone fall, to a friend who was a licensed pharmacist with several years of experience, who became the regional sales rep for a major pharmaceutical company.
The sales rep sold those medications.
Upon mention of one, the sales rep said: "Do not take that medication under any circumstances. If you are taking it, stop immediately. I did not tell you that."
The sales rep continued marketing that lucrative medication, for the "other guy", you.
The climber asked the prescribing doctor where doctors get their data to prescribe drugs. The doc said: "From the sales reps. We are too busy to do our own research on all the medications."
A few decades ago, when Recreational Equipment Inc (REI) was informed by an independent climbing equipment safety testing entity, that its 2-hole T snow pickets were dangerously weak at the 2nd hole, and should not be sold without a warning to not use the top hole, REI continued selling its few thousand 2-hole pickets in stock, without warning anyone. Asked about that, REI's president, Jim Whitaker, a climber, stated: "We are merchants, not safety inspectors."
The unquestioning humans are so very easy to fool with the rhetorical illusions of titles and credentials. They will parrot the government/company line, on cue, and ridicule the people without titles and credentials, who offer information resulting from asking questions.
Notice who among the SuperTopo folks have revealed themselves as NEVER willing to ask a titled National Park Ranger, by name on record, "Is it lawful to enforce an inferior law contradicted by a superior law?"
The question leads to the questions that reveal that Park Rangers are the criminals, with over 95 percent of their citations based on inferior laws contradicted by superior laws. The citations are just highly lucrative "taxation by fraudulent citation", for the insatiable power and money of the government.
If a Park Pig reads this, he or she will continue their criminal activities, and support their fellow criminals, for the same reason the sales rep and REI continued their lucrative actions, oblivious to the eventual consequences. Same with supporters of the institution's power. Power-damaged minds are flawlessly predictable in relation to their defense of their inherently damaging power.
Do not wonder why I reference unquestioning AmerAC members, Access Fund contributors, government dolts and other institutionally trained minds, by amusing terms.
And you might recognize why thinking (questioning) climbers are members of the Alaskan Alpine Club which has asked the National Park Service the questions, on record, that the pitiable AmerAC and Access Fund dolts fear.
Choose your vaccines and climbing equipment carefully. Ask questions.
Enjoy the show.
DougBuchanan.com
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 13, 2009 - 04:12pm PT
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Here are a number of resource on H1N1 on this yahoo page:
Sebelius: Swine flu shots may start early October
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090913/ap_on_he_me/us_swine_flu_shots
Video:Is swine flu worse than the regular flu? WHAS TV11 Louisville
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/ylocalnews?ch=4226712&cl=15475009&lang=en
Doesn't seem to be any worse than the regular Flu.
Boost you immune system (good diet, vitamins, green tea, D3, Colliodial Silver etc.) and suffer through it and let nature do its course and develope your own body immunity. I have never had a Flu shot before. I don't think I'm gonna start now.
Obviuosly if it gets bad get into and see your doctor. My friend who is also a holistic doctor for Scripps Medical in La Jolla is of the same opinion. Do it on your own, don't have a knee jerk reaction and automatically go out each year and have a Flu shot. Just like people over use and miss-use antibiotics, and we hear the warnings about that all the time, I suppose the same can be said for vaccines, especially the Flu season vaccines that they come out with every year.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 13, 2009 - 05:01pm PT
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Klimmer, perhaps you should try to understand the difference between a vaccine and an antibiotic, both of these have been around for a long time and the outcomes of their uses are well known and documented.
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S.Powers
Boulder climber
Joshua Tree, CA
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Sep 13, 2009 - 05:23pm PT
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I love how dougie brings the National Park Service into almost everyone of his posts.
I laugh robustly
enjoy the show!
spowers.com
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rotten johnny
Social climber
mammoth lakes, ca
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Sep 13, 2009 - 05:33pm PT
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i'd like to live long enough to see that guy play chopsticks with his tool , shoot me up with the vaccine.....rj
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 13, 2009 - 06:00pm PT
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Klimmer harped: "Many are coming to this reality and it is painful. But it has to be done. Focus the anger toward pushing the truth and openeing eyes. Maybe one day we will see justice. No doubt we will on the Day of Judgement. "
Sorry man that day will never come because you would never believe the truth if they told it. You clearly get a lot out of being conspired against, so conspiracies you will always find.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 13, 2009 - 06:01pm PT
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Ed,
I know the difference, that is why I called them out differently. But we all know and have heard the missuse and abuse of antibiotics, right? Are you gonna dissagree with that?
I'm speculating, perhaps the same can be said with vaccines. I don't know, just speculating.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 13, 2009 - 06:21pm PT
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HDDJ,
Now I'm pretty sure you won't agree with me and think it is all fantasy and myth, but the day I'm referring to is The Great Day of Judgement before God almighty himself, at the very end before a new heaven and Earth are created.
We will all know then, and that will be an incredible day of judgement and shame. You bet I'm gonna pay attention.
Thank God my sins are washed clean and forgiven by The Lamb of God -- Jesus Christ, my savior and yours if you chose to be. My sins are many and grievious. It is a daily walk with God and it always will be. I am no where near perfection. It will be a long, long road. I feel very fortunate to have met him and then asked for his forgiveness and asked him to come back into my life. I know the story and path of the Prodigal Son all too well. I lived it. I came back to God sometime after 9-11-01 after being gone for a long time, sowing my oats as they say. But thank God he really loves us. I have another chance. We all do.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 13, 2009 - 11:34pm PT
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Why all the microbiologist deaths since 9-11-01? HHHhhhmmmm. Makes me wonder . . .
Strange Cluster Of Microbiologists'
Deaths Under The Microscope
By Alanna Mitchell, Simon Cooper, and Carolyn Abraham
Compiled by Alanna Mitchell
The Globe and Mail
5-4-2
http://www.rense.com/general24/exk.htm
"It's a tale only the best conspiracy theorist could dream up.
Eleven microbiologists mysteriously dead over the span of just five months. Some of them world leaders in developing weapons-grade biological plagues. Others the best in figuring out how to stop millions from dying because of biological weapons. Still others, experts in the theory of bioterrorism.
Throw in a few Russian defectors, a few nervy U.S. biotech companies, a deranged assassin or two, a bit of Elvis, a couple of Satanists, a subtle hint of espionage, a big whack of imagination, and the plot is complete, if a bit reminiscent of James Bond."
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=6&oq=microbiologist&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GPEA_enUS301US303&q=microbiologist+deaths
What did they all know that the powers that be didn't want anyone else to know?
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Sep 14, 2009 - 12:03am PT
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I'm not at liberty to talk about it, but if you do a search on "cancer clusters, McFarland" it will turn up some interesting FACTS about child mortality in the Central Valley. I have heard it is from a buried alien craft in Shafter, and has ties to the El Pollo Loco in Fresno.
I've probably said too much already.....
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 14, 2009 - 12:06am PT
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Supertopo is full of sheep ......
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Sep 14, 2009 - 12:09am PT
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I got a ticket once in Shafter for picking up a hitch hiker.
So you could say they got the mine and I got the ...
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Sep 14, 2009 - 01:06am PT
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It's been a weekend, with climbing and brewing beer and cooking and eating food, and enjoying life and such. Now it's Sunday night and I check in to ST for the first time in a while and find that this thread is still alive and kicking, BUT... big ol' "but" here...
Klimmer didn't answer a question I very politely asked him/her a day or two ago. So, I'll repeat it. Here's what I wrote:
__
There are a lot of resources, people, whistle-blowers on the inside that are saying this time it is different. There is not a lot of trust anymore. Something has significantly changed and not for the better.
So Klimmer, here's a question for you. Not a loaded one, or a sarcastic one, but a serious one.
Suppose you are right, and that this time it is different. If the vaccine turns out to be part of a plot, and kills the people who take it, then I will accept that. I'll say you were right, and, if they haven't taken my balls, I'll ask what I can do to help get us out from under the tyranny.
But suppose you are wrong, and that it turns out millions of people around the world are vaccinated and nothing bad happens to them. Will you then say you we were right, and that your illuminati conspiracy theory was a just a loony idea that you are now prepared to give up?
D
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Brian Hench
Trad climber
Laguna Beach, CA
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Sep 14, 2009 - 02:33am PT
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One has an average chance of about 10-20% of getting seasonal flu in any given year. For most people, this means about 4-7 days of feeling crappy on the couch.
Flu vaccine is pretty much 100% effective if given early enough. They say the new N1H1 vaccine is effective after only 8 days. Having frequently been vaccinated my self I can say that I often get a sore spot at the injection site for 2-3 days. A couple of times I felt mildly unwell for a day or two.
I've always felt it was worth it. I couldn't afford to bring home flu and give it to my wife who was in a weakened state with cancer treatment.
Given that N1H1 is currently no worse in severity than seasonal flu, why all the worry? The last time it went around was 1958. Older folks already have immunity. We can expect large numbers of school children to get it.
It's the potential of the virus to recombine with bird flu to become much more lethal that has people worried. Will it happen? There's no way to know. Probably it won't. If you decide to wait and people start dying in greater numbers, there's going to be a stampede to get the vaccine and then you might not get it in time. You can bet those doctors will be at the front of the line.
As much as the manufacturers of these vaccines are making, it is only a small percentage of their overall operations. If they make mistakes the FDA is going to be all over them. That will draw scrutiny to all their processes which they dearly want to avoid.
Baxter recently got burnt on the heparin supplied by China. They are working very hard to prevent it from happening again. Heparin is a tiny portion of their business, but they know that if they were to abandon the market, it would call to question the rest of their business. Yes big pharma is in it to make money, but they can be shut down. It has happened. If anything they err on the side of caution.
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Doug Buchanan
Mountain climber
Fairbanks Alaska
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Sep 14, 2009 - 02:40am PT
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So far, flu shots have been voluntary.
Notice how many voluntary actions have progressively become coerced and then government-required actions, and notice the normal increase in power effected by all governments throughout history, until they therefore collapse.
Notice that the Germans "discussed" the troubling increase in the Nazi party power, rather than formally asked questions of it, for public record.
One does not need to use force if adequately questioned reasoning supports an action, except in the perceptions of power-damaged minds who will use the inherent existence of individual disagreement to illogically claim a need to force everybody with yet another law.
For lack of formal public questioning on record, the day a vaccine becomes mandatory will be a day too late to conveniently reclaim your right to individual choice. And the "just go along with government" crowd will make the same excuses the Germans made, much to the amusement of those who ask questions instead of mindlessly obey people with institutional titles.
Hmmm, and it is all a Park Service conspiracy, you know. They were the nation's largest federal police force before the TSA cops were given federal badges. Proof of vaccination before getting into National Parks or airplanes. What, you think the feds have not already discussed that? See, it is another Park Service conspiracy.
Or something like that. Can't find anything genuinely interesting on the internet tonight, and entertaining fellow climbers is always worthy.
Oh, Brian, check out the accumulative effect of vaccine mercury on the immune system. Just keep track of the costs of benefits. The knowledge is useful at the first recognition of the otherwise unexplained results.
Doug
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Brian Hench
Trad climber
Laguna Beach, CA
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Sep 16, 2009 - 02:05am PT
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Doug, the current flu vaccine doesn't have any mercury in it. The previous versions had vanishingly small quantities in them- less than what you get from your amalgam fillings.
That reminds me, I need to go to the dentist and get some more of my amalgam fillings replaced. ;-)
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