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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 25, 2009 - 04:40pm PT
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If it were a white man, chances are the police would never have been called. When a black man is in a white neighborhood, it is more likely that people are going to be suspiciously watching him.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Jul 25, 2009 - 04:42pm PT
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Howie wrote: The odds are that if a white man were found inside the home under the very same circumstances, the police would have demanded that HE show ID and would have approached HIM with suspicion, as well. It was NOT a racial "thing" and that is the crux of the problem. When one is so suspicious that everything and every action by someone else is viewed as a racial slur, problems will invariably ensue - as they did here. It is very easy to blame everything on discrimination of any sort.
He did show his ID and they arrested him anyway, the charges were later dropped.
I grew up in a black area and remember quite vividly walking home with my black friends after playing basketball one day...I was told by the cops to keep walking (the only white guy in the group) and the other were detained/harassed.
This sh#t happens everyday.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 25, 2009 - 04:55pm PT
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"Black folks often do not realize how often white men (and sometimes women) have the screws put to them by LEO. They think it is because they are black when really it is a function of LEO and/or nature of the business."
The problem with this is that it is not true. Whenever any number crunching is done it shows that race is an important factor in how often "the screws" are put to them.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jul 25, 2009 - 05:00pm PT
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BHO has his own issues with the Cambridge PD.
When at Harvard he accumulated 17 parking tickets.
He didn't bother paying 15 of them until it came to light at the beginning of his presidential bid and a donor paid them off fifteen years late.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jul 25, 2009 - 05:07pm PT
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"The problem with this is that it is not true. Whenever any number crunching is done it shows that race is an important factor in how often "the screws" are put to them."
Good point Granite, but I don't think some folks here will ever accept or understand this.
They have been harassed once or twice, sometimes for good cause, and don't understand that blacks are harassed way more often. Studies show this, but that doesn't matter to them.
No one ever says, he was stopped for driving while white. There is a reason for this.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jul 25, 2009 - 05:11pm PT
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Weird, that last post was one of the dumbest things you are ever written. Were you channeling Lois?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 25, 2009 - 05:19pm PT
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Wilkins, a Harvard Law School graduate, was a public defender in Washington, DC. In May of 1992 he was returning to DC from a family funeral in Ohio in a rented Cadillac. He was accompanied by his aunt, uncle and a 29-year old cousin. Wilkins was pulled over by a trooper in western Maryland for speeding. He and his family were ordered out of the car and forced to stand in driving rain for more than an hour as the state trooper brought in drug-sniffing dogs to search the car. No drugs were found. Wilkins and the American Civil Liberties Union filed suit and, in 1995, won a substantial settlement from the Maryland State Police. As part of the Wilkins settlement, the state police agreed to compile a database of all stops of drivers on Maryland highways in which police ask to perform searches or in which a search is done by a drug-sniffing dog.
White motorists make up 78 per cent of Maryland highway traffic, while black drivers account for about 17 per cent and other minorities about 5 percent in the state. When the Wilkins data were submitted to the court in late 1998, they showed that between January 1, 1995 and December 15, 1997, more than 70 per cent of the people who were stopped and searched on Interstate 95 were black and about 77 per cent were minorities. Only about 23 per cent were white. The data also revealed that the vast majority of drivers who were stopped and searched and not found to be carrying any drugs were also black, more than 67 percent. The ACLU has used such data to bring a class action suit against the Maryland state police.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 25, 2009 - 05:27pm PT
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Howweird Dean: "Should, for example, white men scream foul and cry racial discrimination because THEY are being arrested in disproportionate numbers for crimes related to corporate embezzlement and other white collar crime. "Man, those FBI agents are a bunch of f___g racists. You never see them go after any of those inner city black dudes for corporate embezzlement."
No, you do not understand. If 80% of CFO's are white and 80% of all CFO's who are arrested for white collar crime are also white, that would not indicate any racism.
But a better statistic would be the percentage of whites/blacks who commit the offense compared to how many are apprehended for it. This is not possible with white collar crime but is possible with speeding where stops by officers can be compared to camera and radar data.
In 1995 a New Jersey state judge threw out charges against fifteen black drivers who, the judge said, had been pulled over without cause. During the trial it emerged that on a 26-mile long stretch on the southern part of the New Jersey Turnpike minorities accounted for 46 percent of the drivers stopped, even though they were only 15 percent of the speeders.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 25, 2009 - 05:34pm PT
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It happens in Canada and England also.
What's the statistical evidence that racial profiling exists?
Since anecdotal evidence appears to not be taken that seriously, the search for more concrete evidence of racial profiling inevitably leads to statistics compiled by police forces themselves. But most police forces in North America don't collect race-based data on such things as traffic stops. That's why a series of articles published in 2002 in the Toronto Star caused such a sensation. The articles were based on stats collected by the police.
Analysis of those figures by Star reporters suggested that [blacks in Toronto were over-represented in certain offence categories like drug possession and in what were called "out-of-sight" traffic violations, such as driving without a licence. The analysis also suggested that black suspects were more likely to be held in custody for a bail hearing, while white suspects facing similar charges – were more likely to be released at the scene.
A study of police statistics in Kingston, Ont., released in May 2005 found that young black and aboriginal men were more likely to be stopped than other groups. The data showed that police in the predominantly white city were 3.7 times more likely to stop a black as a Caucasian, and 1.4 times more likely to stop an aboriginal person than a white.
Many other studies in the United States and Britain suggest that racial profiling does exist. In England, police routinely record the racial background of everyone stopped and searched by police. Stats from 1997-98 found that black people were stopped and searched at a rate of 142 per 1,000. Whites were stopped and searched at a rate of just 19 per 1,000.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 25, 2009 - 05:40pm PT
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HowweirdDean, you may be right, but it is Crowley's lack of discernment and judgment that concerns me. He was on the job as public servant and "peace officer."
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jul 25, 2009 - 05:40pm PT
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"That still does not negate my point regarding discernment. Gates exhibited no ability to discern one scenario for another and fell automatically into the "victim" mode via pulling out the race card."
You have no way of knowing this. You don't know how patient he was or how many documents he had to provide to prove his identity. Nor how long this went on or how many times he had to say, this is my home, this is my home, I have done nothing wrong, thank you for coming, now would you please leave, this is my home, you have my id, this is my home.
How many times should he say this or prove his id, before he loses his temper?
What you know is that he provided his identity, and was still arrested.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 25, 2009 - 05:43pm PT
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HowweirdDean: "This whole thing is so blown up out of proportion that it truly speaks ill of us as a society. As if we do not have any legitimate problems to focus upon. The only thing which is worse was the whole Michael Jackson coverage. Are we really this shallow and air-headed as a society?"
Apparently, but does this also apply to you or only to everyone else who is posting about this or discussing it elsewhere?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jul 25, 2009 - 05:58pm PT
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"To the extent that injustices continue to exist, yes, of course, they need to be addressed but a whole lot of said "injustices" are not truly so."
You have no idea what you are talking about.
"My take on Gates is that he dangled the bait and the officers bit it."
You have no way of knowing this.
" He strikes me as arrogant and pompous, to boot."
Yes, I was certain that you would say this Lois/troll. Everyone you don't know or like is pompous or arrogant. Sadly you should look in the mirror.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jul 25, 2009 - 06:12pm PT
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Not trolling you, though you did bite. I just think a person who came to this site with the sole intent of "messing" with people shouldn't mind a bit of his own medicine.
And you do remind me of Lois. Very arrogant and always knows things they can't know and ignores facts, no matter how many times or how many facts are presented to them. It took us two years to convince Lois that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Two friggen years.
You remind me of her. Extremely stubborn and extremely prejudiced. You know what you know and it doesn't matter what evidence to the contrary is presented to you.
Oh well, carry on Troll.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jul 25, 2009 - 06:25pm PT
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You already bit and I am fighting with you. All I had to do is call you lois and you went off. Predictable. then you ignored any truth to what I wrote. So like Lois. You could be twins.
Sorry Granite, I know that you were trying to have an intelligent conversation, and for a moment there I thought you were getting there. I will bug out now.
Bye Lois...
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Swifter
Social climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Jul 25, 2009 - 06:57pm PT
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Translation: When I was teaching middle school in California, "Tell it to your momma" was variously translated as: "Go engage in sexual intercourse with your maternal parent"
or simply
"Go F yourself."
Even though I'm not smart enough to be a Harvard professor I wouldn't say this to a man with a gun.
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Jul 25, 2009 - 07:42pm PT
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I had a similar situation on my property with Reno's finest. I'm a red kneck "cracker ass", whitey, and they still took me in. To" protect and serve", seems to only apply to their own self interests. If you have a gun, I'll still call you whatever I want. You're either gonna shot me or knott....
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jul 25, 2009 - 08:39pm PT
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Sorry Weird, but I stopped arguing with Lois a long time ago. I should have know that you would not understand what I was attempting to do and that you would try to put it off on me.
Yes, I was yanking your chain about the lois thing, but only because you need your chain yanked.
Based on nothing more then a story, you have determined that Gates was baiting the officer and that the officer was in the right, even though the facts don't support this. You are so wrapped up in your theory about victimhood, which obviously Lois must have learned from you, that you have decided that Gates is arrogant even though many people support him and he and the officer are working things out. You twist the facts to fit what you want to believe.
To me this points to your prejudice more then anything. Perhaps not against blacks, but against anything that even remotely looks like victimhood.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 25, 2009 - 09:17pm PT
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I am curious as to the how and why of picking the name
HowwierdDean,
Please enlighten me.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Jul 25, 2009 - 09:32pm PT
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I bet Professor Gates was already in a bad mood because his front door was messed up. Who wouldn't be? He'd been traveling, just got home, wanted to pee, get something to eat, watch tv in the comfy
chair, etc. And then...the Police show up.
Want to see him teach? (and walk with a cain)
look here;
http://dubois.fas.harvard.edu/node/270
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