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Buju
Big Wall climber
the range of light
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Apr 22, 2010 - 02:36pm PT
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No worries...yall!
Ben, Im sorry i missed ya when you were in town. My mother was in town and we were keeping it chill at home.
Pete, I was a part of that party that passed you on the Trip last year. I got to meet we-wee...pretty funny stuff. You got big plans for this season?
hahaha....thanks Jeff! seriously...
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Apr 22, 2010 - 02:36pm PT
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I normally don't like most rangers but I can see that exceptions like Link, and now Jesse, happily are still there to help me change my mind on that.
Thanks Jesse.
Some of you other guys need to lighten up a tad...oh wait: this is the internet. Nevermind.
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Apr 22, 2010 - 02:45pm PT
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Oh yeah, I forgot to mention Wildone's selfless participation in one of the nastiest jobs you can do in Yosemite Wilderness...
Cleaning up Camp 6 (of the Nose)
We've been working towards mining out the garbage on this one since 2006, and every year we've made great progress. The crack has less and less stuff jammed in their every year we go back. Wildone helped me in 2007 or '08 (can't remember right now) when we rapped in from the top and hauled a full (largest Metolious size) haulbag of garbage including some crappy collections of human excrement.
This guy is committed to keeping Yosemite clean, and his actions show his commitment to the Earth as well. Really, no car Ben? How do you do that? Like, how would you get to the crags? Oh yeah, you can take a bus right into Yosemite Valley. But, I thought only Euros did that.
Jesse
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 22, 2010 - 02:45pm PT
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I am available to help out on the remote cleanups too....
it is much better when the climbing community figures out how to manage the largely unplanned abandonment of gear by itself then to have the NPS do it for us, by regulation and citation... but maybe the community is so dysfunctional that it can't organize... another aspect might be there are only a few out there doing things, and the rest of us are sitting on our butts back at home wanking our keyboards...
...like Russ said in his unique style: "opinions are like as#@&%es, everybody has one." I've heard a lot of bitching over this issue but not a lot of action, ultimately the NPS went in and cleaned up... and HMK even found a way of dinging them with a stupid comment about transparency...
last time I heard, heli cost was like $600/hr, for the purpose of an order-of-magnitude cost estimate, that would be $1000/hr...
fully loaded employee costs are not more than $120k/yr... roughly 2000 hr/yr gives of order $50/hr (I know, it's $60/hr if you actually do the division, and note that the employee cost is part of that, there is the overhead costs folded in; "fully loaded")...
you don't have to be a rocket scientist to estimate the labor costs...
but I can use the exercise walking stuff out on my back...
...and so can many of the people crying about the outrage on this thread. If you feel strongly, come and help out...
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 22, 2010 - 02:51pm PT
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Chief
to invite the NPS to regulate our activities is a disaster...
can't you see that?
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Apr 22, 2010 - 02:53pm PT
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Good work, Roger and Jesse!
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Apr 22, 2010 - 03:00pm PT
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Thanks Ed for reminding folks that they don't want the likes of me to micromanage climbing in Yosemite. I for one definitely don't want to spend my time in court trying to recoup the costs for every piece of work I have to do to correct actions of the climbing community...or any user group for that matter.
edit: [Chief, thanks for reiterating the core message. When you leave, pack it out!]
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Apr 22, 2010 - 03:13pm PT
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and HMK even found a way of dinging them with a stupid comment about transparency...
If you are referring to me, what comment was that?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 22, 2010 - 03:16pm PT
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HMK,
How is revealing how our tax dollars are spent "none of your business"?
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Apr 22, 2010 - 03:17pm PT
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The story changes once the people were cited.
I'm not a fine guy, more of a clean it up and say your sorry type. But a fine is fine too. The more important point is that the NPS is not ignoring this type of action and is actually more responsive than most people think-
Hence three employees speaking here, a clean up, and the citations.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Apr 22, 2010 - 03:26pm PT
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Ed - how is that a "stupid comment"?
Keep in mind this was prior to Jesse M stating that those responsible received citations...
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Buju
Big Wall climber
the range of light
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Apr 22, 2010 - 04:31pm PT
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HMK...I make 14.05 an hour, no health insurance, no dental, no retirement.
I clean up people's messes in the wilderness yet somehow manage get flack about it on supertopo. ahhh internet...
how much do YOU make an hour?
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Apr 22, 2010 - 05:00pm PT
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buju,
the unfortunate part of your employmnet is that there would appear to be way too much job security...
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wildone
climber
GHOST TOWN
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Apr 22, 2010 - 05:07pm PT
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I always said they paid us in sunsets.
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Banquo
Trad climber
Morgan Hill, CA
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Apr 22, 2010 - 06:57pm PT
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Benford's law of controversy comes to mind.
We are just about up to the point where Godwin's Law will come into play.
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Apr 22, 2010 - 07:40pm PT
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Jesus Fuuck, reading this makes me wonder who invited the Tea Party to the Tacostand? Whole lotta thunderous posturing going on around here. And to think I thought staying out of the political threads would shield me from this dreck. Where's an eye rolling emoticon when you need one?
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pk_davidson
Trad climber
Albuquerque, NM
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Apr 23, 2010 - 01:20pm PT
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LMAO - right on bro white, my thoughts eggzaxctly
(I propose we add a TP category so this kinda spew can get stuffed there and out of good TRs)
Here's the one shining point I see in all of this ranting drift:
The most reasoned voice is the Feds! After years of being lost in the Bush, who'd a thunk the voice of reason would come from that angle!?
Tx Jesse, and a toast to the rest of you who spend your time humping out crap for a barely liveable wage.
Back to our normally scheduled thread:
Awesome pics, awesome looking climbs.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Apr 23, 2010 - 02:20pm PT
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We are just about up to the point where Godwin's Law will come into play.
So if I make some comment about ethics Nazis, will that push us over the Godwin threshold?
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
climber
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One of murcy's shots from the facelift thread. LTR or COTW?
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jstan
climber
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I must have missed this thread thinking it was a TR. Just a couple of things.
Regardless of what was actually said here, maybe the fact the thread happened will have good effects after the dust and smoke have drifted away.
At the least it suggests a non-negligible number of people feel an hour spent cleaning up is more productive than an hour spent climbing. One needs doing. The other, not so much.
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