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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 27, 2005 - 10:18pm PT
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So let me get this straight,
Ranger wants cool new toys.
Doesn't have good reason to get them.
Pretends reason actually exists by creating what amounts to a single blip on the screen.
Just recalled where I smelled that before. I used to own 3 mules.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
on a rock or mountain out west
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Jul 28, 2005 - 12:20am PT
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Werner, I just gotta ask, cause you said:
"As far as Aufhauser goes I knew him and worked with him and never had a problem. After that shooting thing I saw him again and never asked him about it because it was none of my business. He went through whatever with that and it was his problem why would I have to make it my business then."
Now, this Aufhauser incident seems like it would have been a HUGE deal in the park at the time. All that money, manpower, resources, devoted to something that ultimately turned out to not be true. And something that would prove to be hugely embarassing to the NPS rangers. The valley is a small place, I can't imagine this wouldn't have been the coffee pot talk for many many days or years to come. Seriously, you never asked him about getting shot? About the prospect that a dangerous criminal may still be on the loose in the park (assuming you believed his initial allegations), or that the search abruptly ended with no suspect at large and it all was mysteriously dropped and brushed under the rug?
It just seems like WAY too huge a white elephant in the room to not talk about or at least inquire about in some way.
And if you worked with him again, was he still a ranger after this incident? If THAT kind of incident can't get a ranger fired or demoted, makes you wonder what it would take.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 28, 2005 - 12:31am PT
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I worked with him again after the shooting incident and he wasn't a ranger then anymore but just helping out on a SAR. Man I didn't put much light into Kim because he already went through the flamethrower after his incident. Plus it just wasn’t my business.
I don’t believe in rubbing salt in some guys wounds while he’s already hurting big time.
On top of it I really liked Kim Aufhauser as a person.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 28, 2005 - 12:51am PT
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There have been quite a few threads where we all celebrate and laugh at the stupid, dangerous, and destructive things that we've done in the past. It seems that climbers don't have any monopoly at making mistakes and screwing up. I rememeber that incident with Kim, the park being locked down, and the later revelation that there was no "transient" who shot him. The actual series of events remained hazy, at least for me.
Maybe it was Big Screw up for Kim. But then he, somehow, stopped being a ranger, and moved on. Judging from his web page it looks like he found a career where he's doing well at no risk to the public. Seems like a pretty cool guy from reading his site linked above. It's not like we're hearing stories here about him jacking up innocent climbers with planted probable cause.
Maybe he should have been punished more, Maybe the folks with the wild stories from back in the day should have been caught and punished as well. Looks like many have got off light. I can live with that. Would you prefer the alternative?
Peace
karl
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Fluoride
Trad climber
on a rock or mountain out west
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Jul 28, 2005 - 01:08am PT
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Yeah, actually I would prefer the alternative. If you or I shot ourselves and claimed someone else did it, cause a massive manhunt that included hundred of man hours and thousands of dollars, then it all turned out to be a lie, you or I would be billed for the entire cost of the operation and charged with filing a false police report or something else along those lines. Cause otherwise it makes it VERY clear that there are two standards, one behind the blue curtain and one for the rest of the citizenry.
Think about that runaway bride in Georgia recently. Her lie was equally ill advised (claiming to be kidnapped) and she got billed something like $30,000 for search efforts and had to plea to some misdemeanors and now has a criminal record (the cost of HIS search, with aerials and that much manpower was probably upwards of $100K). Pretty much the same set of circumstances only Kim's went unpunished. "Humiliation was enough" for him doesn't float for me. Just cause he carried a badge and gun doesn't allow him to live by a different set of rules and punishment that apply to the rest of us.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jul 28, 2005 - 01:15am PT
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i see a pretty big difference between any argument that this individual should have met w/ more serious consequences, and werner's personal interaction w/ the guy in question. may we all have similar people in our lives that choose to let us off easy when our imperfections are obvious. (i'll raise my drink to you for that WB)
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Fluoride
Trad climber
on a rock or mountain out west
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Jul 28, 2005 - 01:28am PT
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Don't get me wrong Matt, I think it's great that Werner didn't judge him and stayed his friend. My initial question to him was about why something that big was never brought up between them. Werner answered it just fine.
My other response was about Karl's comment, about how an alternative would have been better. My response to THAT was purely about punishment levels and how if you or I pulled that crap, we'd be in a load of trouble. I think Matt you were replying to what I wrote to Karl thinking it was to the Werner post.
I still want to know why this went unpunished.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 28, 2005 - 02:58am PT
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My theoretical alternative would imply that Kim would be charged to the max for whatever he did, and climbers would have been fined and jailed for actions like sellling the '77 airplane dope, drunk driving the loop backwards and over pedestrian bridges, and all that other stuff.
It just a way of saying "Let's not be hypocrites about cheering all our friends getting off the hook but wishing that the authorities pay through the nose."
Speculation:
I have to assume that the NPS higher ups weren't happy with what happened with Kim and that he may have lost his place and career in Yosemite because of it. They must have had their reasons for their course of action. Maybe their own liability came into play. Prosecuting him might have prevented them from hushing up the whole deal and exposed them to bad press and lawsuits from all the tourists whose vacations got whacked when they were cleared out of the high country. [/speculation]
I'm not excusing abuse in the government or by law enforcement. When we detect it, we should do our best to bring it to light and correct it. On the other hand, dwelling on past mishaps and personalities tends to reinforce the climber/ranger duality, which in turn encourages a culture within park law enforcement that might tend to target the climbing community.
Think about it, be adversarial and your adversaries will consider you to be the enemy. The circle has to break somewhere or the hassle continues. Everybody might be happier, both climbers and rangers, if the default attitude was friendliness and respect. When either climbers or rangers cross the line to abuse, their peers should attempt to reign them in and "the other side" should highlight the problem so it doesn't continue.
Maybe I'm too practical minded. I know there are climbers and rangers who have anger and grudges based on bad experiences from the past. How do we get beyond it? You don't make peace with your friends, but with your enemies. it's not an easy thing, but I just think it's worth doing, and we might all benefit.
Peace
Karl
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Wrathchild
climber
right behind you
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Jul 28, 2005 - 10:01am PT
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Fine with me. I'll be the first one to accept his heartfelt apology. In fact I'll have a T-shirt made Saying "Lobo is the Man!"
Maybe I should do that anyway...
Laugh more
Scowl less
Live longer
Die happy
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Jul 28, 2005 - 10:46am PT
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Karl should be the US ambassador to the UN. I'll drop Harry R. a note.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 28, 2005 - 12:28pm PT
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Spare me. My confirmation hearings would probably make this thread look tame!
Peace
Karl
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jul 28, 2005 - 01:18pm PT
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My interest in the self shooting is not at all hooked up with hauling the ashes of the past, intending to inflame climber/ranger relations. I've always liked stories and this one seems so fantastic, so entirely strange and absurd that I just wanted to knew if it were actually true or not. Yes, we've all done bad things, but driving the loop road on Olde English or hawking bags of Plane weed isn't remotely on the order of cooking up an atempted murder charge and mobilizing 200 men, choppers, shutting down roads and so forth. The fact that a ranger did the cooking is incidental to me. I don't think a story like this should die--not to smear rangers, but because this is really one of those legendary yarns that deserve to be remembered. You couldn't dream up anything like this whopper.
JL
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Wrathchild
climber
right behind you
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Jul 28, 2005 - 01:36pm PT
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Right you are. When we are gone, all that is left is stories.
They won't let us write on the cliffs anymore.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 28, 2005 - 02:04pm PT
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I agree with everything ya'll said, Dingus and Largo.
I'm just trying to set out a vision of demanding accountability for any present problems, while acknowledging the need to heal the relationship with the past. I think that's a goal that's within reach.
You can imagine that there are plenty of good rangers who start out with good intentions, but get influenced by a culture of climbers that have a almost genetically induced distate for rangers, and by a culture of rangers that has inherited a negative view of climbers.
As long as the climbing community repeats the "all tool iz Bad" mantra, we won't have much credibility in correcting any bad apples that might come along.
Peace
Karl
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Loom
climber
Sierra Nevada
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Jul 28, 2005 - 02:15pm PT
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btw, I was the first civilian to come through the Tioga road that night. The FBI asked me if I'd seen any deer??? I wrote something more in this thread:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=33029#msg33206
Since Largo likes irony, perhaps, at the risk of perpetuating stereotypes and hard feelings, now might be a fine time to bring up Conover . . .
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Cracko
Trad climber
Quartz Hill, California
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Jul 28, 2005 - 02:32pm PT
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Ya Know...maybe if every individual would hold themselves to a higher standard we would all be a lot better off!!
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jul 28, 2005 - 02:33pm PT
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Since Largo likes irony, perhaps, at the risk of perpetuating stereotypes and hard feelings, now might be a fine time to bring up Conover . . .
Huh? Am I supposed to know what this means??
JL
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Loom
climber
Sierra Nevada
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Jul 28, 2005 - 02:44pm PT
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No, he was a persecutor, er, prosecutor in Yos w/ an interesting story. I was hoping someone who knows the details better than me would tell it. . .
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Jul 28, 2005 - 03:07pm PT
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Loom, do you perhaps mean Scott Connerly (sp), the tool who had a perchant for young lads??
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jul 28, 2005 - 03:10pm PT
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so speaking of controversy, what ever happened w/ that girl beth from smelLA, and her cuffing and stuffing in the meadows last year? anyone know the skinny?
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