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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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It looked to me like the last guys who tried to free the Muir intentionally fixed a bunch of gear by smashing a bunch of nuts way deep in the crack. It was obvious that they weren't trying to clean them, but hammer them straight back in as far as possible like bashies. I think it is a fair assumption that it was the free climbers because all the placements were ticked with chalk. On p24 I think there were like 7 fixed nuts in a row. f*#king lame. might as well power drill bolts up the thing...
is that bold style??? more like bullshit style.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Max and I did a similar thing at Sugarloaf. We aided a pitch and then free climbed it and then took the gear out (all pins). On the drive down there we were wondering what to call it if we did in fact free climb it but placed the gear on aid. As usual for us we decided that we were taking a step and that others would take steps beyond us. We didn't care if we got credit for the "first free ascent". (the route has since been bolted)
In this instance here, it would have been awkward to call the route "free" since the free climbing protection was placed on aid and was not permanent, but I think Coz and The Kid were aware that they were taking a step and fully expected others to take steps beyond them.
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 5, 2009 - 12:53pm PT
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back and forth back and forth.
time to move on kiddes!
smashing nuts in the crack? dude you are high...
ks
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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We'll keep going forth as long as you keep going back Kurt.
Meaning: got any more pictures?
So far, this is my favorite,
('headwall pitch photo really tells a story but somehow isn't as dramatic-maybe it's just the size)
This picture has so much life, you can almost smell the swooshing airiness:
And Kurt check my 3 questions a few posts back, just basic interest, nothing controversial.
(or maybe you want to let Coz reply to those, whatever...)
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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JLP said:
”That's wonderful, but what were these two [Hubers] doing in 1994?”
Them Hubers weren’t too far behind; they were certainly using different tactics.
This is why I asked earlier whether Coz & Kurt had any interaction, recollections, or influences from what was going on in that (1994) timeframe. Lynn’s Nose ascents were the only ones I can think of that were happening pretty much in the same time frame as the Muir/Shaft free attempt. Scott Burke’s attempts on The Nose were later, maybe too much to coincide?
My sense is that for Coz & Kurt there was not a lot of direct, influential El Cap free efforts (besides Lynn’s, Skinner/Piana’s, Max/Mark’s) providing context, it seems it was the two of them just independently wanting to go up there and free this thing from the ground up; something they’d been thinking about since 1988.
Here’s a picture from the climbing cover archive, of Alex Huber, up on the Salathe Headwall.
Climbing number 154, August September 1995:
From: http://www.climbing.com/photo-video/gallery/coverarchive/
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Kurt, I don't think Lambone was referring to ya'll when he wrote
"It looked to me like the last guys who tried to free the Muir intentionally fixed a bunch of gear by smashing a bunch of nuts way deep in the crack."
Obviously, we have no idea who might have gone up there and failed (or sent) or placed those nuts. Maybe they wanted their jams and pro in the same places?
Too bad though. It's tempting to take the bite out of the climb when you think you can find a loop hole. I'd rather have folk preplace the pro like Kurt and Coz than fix semi-not-really-permanent stuff and think it's somehow different.
peace
Karl
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Kurt,
Karl is right, I wasn't refering to you or your team regarding using aluminum stoppers as bashies in C1-2 cracks. I guess I was under the impression that this thread was about the Muir Wall in general.
I was refering to the guys who were on it August-September of 2006. Their names were mentioned earlier in this thread somewhere. I don't know them or anything about their style/ ethics...other then they are more of those mini-trax monkeys who think it's cool to just rap in and work routes forever. Whatever floats your boat I guess as long as you leave the route somewhat in the way you found it. I have much more respect for a ground up effort like yours.
All I know first hand from what I saw is that some mother-fvcker took their hammer and a chisel and welded 7 or 8 goddamn nuts in a row in a C1-2 blue-black alien crack. They will be there for a very long time until the cables rot and rust away unless somebody goes up there with some kind of ice tool or some sh#t to chop them out.
WTF is up with this style? I am talking a literal Nut Ladder for 60ft, I placed mybe two of my own peieces. My point in my original post on the last page was in refrence to Karls statement about many free climbers improving on El Cap freeclimbing style. I'd say that there is a handfull, like count 'em on one hand. And the others who think it's cool to go up on trade routes and permanently weld some piece of junk in to whip on...can go fvck themselves as far as I'm concerned.
Anyway back to the route. Mike knows the pitch, I'm talking about, the one in the perfect corner above the slopey triangle ledge just below the headwall before the stellar corners.
This be me clipping fixed 'bashies' on C1. Without the right tools required to extract such junk. (Which is?)
As far as the tick marks, on the Muir they will prolly wash off. Not so on the right side though. I don't care about them so much, they kind of amaze me what people can use for holds.
That is all, carry on with your chest beating session. The pics are really cool and I appreciate the TR/route discussion on this forum, we need more like it.
Sorry for the thread drift, just wanted to speak out and make a quick point regarding the Muir and Trade Routes in general, on one issue which I see as unacceptable in our community given the times and technology available to us. Enough with the freakin caveman techniques already.
And yes, I am HIGH, thank you very much.
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 5, 2009 - 06:17pm PT
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lambone, sorry for the wrong impression. I thought you might have been talking about a later ascent.
I guess some noobs got in our their head when placing those nuts.
I'll see about getting another pic posted soon. Maybe my post will make it to 150?
IF you have shots of your time on the muir (t2) post em up!
ks
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Mike, that's it. Your 'Glorious Vision' is now a ladder of wires. And those wires will not be removed without exeptional scaring of the rock and some sort of houdini nut tool/crowbar device.
Kurt no worries, but they wern't placed by n00bs, it was obvious they were free climbers who like to 'Pinkpoint' and turn El Cap into a big sport climb. Each nut was ticked with chalk as if the dude needed a reminder to clip it. They are in literaly as far as you could smash them back and still clip the wire.
And ps, thanks for the fatty anchor bolts. They were nice to clip.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dang, that is one perfect awesome heavenly looking book of stone, pitch 24
El Cap, Upper Dihedrals. Such Beauty
Peace
Karl
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Ah yes, da Muir sure be stellar! Arghh, sailing the Granite Seas! (The Fat Guy Meathod)
Me pretending I know how to free climb 5.7, thank god for the top-rope!
Mucho respect for those hard and clean free climbers.
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nutjob
Stoked OW climber
San Jose, CA
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You guys are so far out of my league, I'll never be able to dream about climbing as hard as you will after you're wearing diapers in retirement. This stuff is unspeakably bad-ass.
That said, please let time cast a graceful shadow of your achievements and don't sully it with petty comparison to subsequent climbers. Your achievements stand on their own.
It's like hearing Babe Ruth come out and say "yeah but they have these fancy bats now and fancy steroids and the atmosphere is thinner and they actually train hard and go on special diets... otherwise I would have done what all these new guys are doing."
Then again, I guess comparing climbing prowess across time/generations is as good a way as any to fill the time around the campfire.
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lucho
Gym climber
San Franpsycho
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This has to be one of the BEST threads on the Taco in a long time. Kurt and Scott are truly an inspiration to many of the younger generation in Yosemite. Its really nice to see some modern Yos. hardmen like Jake and Bob chime in as well. Thanks you guys. The article Coz is great, cant wait for the spring to roll around!
Lucho
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drljefe
climber
Toostoned, AZ
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I really dig what Jake had to say.
I remember when this went down and was super inspired, still am. Too bad such a rad trip got
overshadowed by the powerdrill issue.
Thanks for the mag scan. I still have that issue but the pages are stuck together...not in a creepy way.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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BUMP!!!
This thread belongs on the front page. Big time.
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Justen
climber
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I was happy to lurk another day on Supertopo, especially on a great thread about the best line up El Cap! The Muir Wall has pitch after pitch of classic free climbing with very little groveling. I enjoy some groveling but running laps on Blind Faith doesn’t’ sound like fun. It just gets to me when people that I don’t know mention that I could have done something in better style. It takes time to gain experience, which leads to better style. The mentoring process in the Valley doesn’t exist except for downing Cobra!
I think I’m one of the folks that ticked and fixed 7 stoppers WITHOUT a chisel on the Captian to free that damn thing in the best style possible FOR ME. In the end I re-redpointed every pitch from the ground to the top, ideally with no falls (didn’t happen). It did take persistence from me to hike to the summit and mini the hell out of the route, which I enjoyed (that was the devil in me typing). I was never in anyone’s way during this long personal project. I wasn’t found at the El Cap Tree or Bridge talking trash because I was putting all my passion doing the best that I could do and focusing on my climbing.
I hear so much slander from one thread to the next about all the CASH we climbers in the climbing industry make. I make good money, which is just enough to pay for my own health insurance. I coach adults and kids in the gym and get zero cash from my sponsors. I’m proud of my personal efforts and sorry to hear that it wasn’t proud enough for YOU!
My last adventure I got my ass pulled up Magic Mushroom from the best big wall free climber in the world and still didn’t complete a perfect ascent. But, I sure in hell let all of you know of my shortcoming in every published word on the ascent.
I think the Muir Wall has the best hard free climbing currently on El Cap and hope some of you can go out and enjoy it one day!
P.S. We cleaned out all the small nuts in the beautiful dihedral pitch. I needed those fixed because I wasn’t rad enough to let go long enough to place a stopper or cam from those stances. I know future kids will send this climb in better style because I will personally pass on my knowledge and help them make improvements on my style! I’m a believer of being open about what happened during a send because I want future generation to leap forward.
It’s never to late to start, stop complaining and start mentoring the future generations of climbing!
Justen
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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justen, what you climbed was amazing. I never said you were in anyones way or you ballsy free climbing wasn't prowd. Congrats.
My only question is why didn't you clean your nuts?
Sorry if I was an ass in my previous post. I admit I was fired up about it when I rolled up to lead that pitch, and still get fired up about it. Dont take it personal, i dont know you. I was just expecting and hoping for the pitch in the photograph, the stellar alien leapfrog pitch I had read about since I can recall first reading the old trs on Tuans page. instead i got what in my perception was a trashed pitch, I guess it was just dissapontment. But I am still glad you had fun doing your thing up there.
I do say it was the only pitch littered like that. Which was cool, but made it even more odd at the time.
Anyway, some industrious bastard will clean those things. Saw them in half or something. If they can clean the old stovelegs they can clean anything right!
Cheers
Ps, I coach and mentor 20 or so young climbers myself. I hope they can enjoy clean trade routes on el cap somedaywhen they are ready, if they want to.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Wow! A real live honest-to-goodness confession. Thanks, dude.
I haven't seen the fixed stoppers, so can't comment. You might want to consider a trip back up to see if you could get them out, if it's as grievous as Matt suggests.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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"Who cares about a fixed stoppers, laugh it off my friend."
With attitudes like that well surely see these free routes get laced with fixed sh#t through all the cruxes. Nice.
Sure everyone fixes a nut on occasion, I've fixed my fair share on accident. Fixing a whole pitch with them and leaving them behind is a different story.
Also, I wasn't speculating anything, it was obvious what took place up there. I too have been climbing since you two littered the sport rags with your mullets and puple lycra.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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coz, you appear to be digging a hole.
Refer to all your posts on the Half Dome thread and compare them to your comments on this thread.
Here are my comments.
1) Power drills are not cool just because they were used "ground up". Hand drilling forces us into a certain amount of fair play with the stone, because there's only so much of it one can take, when it comes to granite, if you don't want to be up there a month.
2) Fixed stoppers are about as bad as any other fixed mank.
3) There are many many here who understand perfectly well what is being discussed, and many who have climbed at high levels at various times. I have climbed 5.12 and many El-Cap routes myself. We know the difference between rap bolting and ground up power drilling for example. We know what aid and rehearsing are. We know what a difference pre-placed pro makes.
4) 5.10 climbers and below have to follow the rules, but 5.13 climbers get the green light on whatever is going to make the next gymnastic level go?
We say how much we honor those who came before us, but it often doesn't come out like that.
What would Robbins or John Muir think?
stir..stir..stir....
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