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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Wheat farming is growing as poppy farming shrinks
Unless the Gyrenes are there why would an impoverished farmer grow
something with a yield of $50/acre, and I'm probably being generous, when he could grow poppies which would net him many hundreds or more? It doesn't make any sense. As soon as the Gyrenes leave you know the poppies are going back into the ground.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Now that's a joke. Opium farming only drops due to market conditions and we aren't effecting those. Next to no wheat is being planted because there is no backside plan to buy the wheat from anyone who plants it. This is pure PR fluff and pablum. And also don't kid yourself on the flipside - opium is the primary in-country source of revenue for pro-government forces as well.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Did you guys even read the damn story???
The government is going to buy a lot of the wheat at a price that makes it profitable for the farmers.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Bluey,
It is a nice idea but it don't wash! Do you think some yahoo Afghan farmer is gonna get better than 10 bushels/acre out of a field of rocks?
A kick-ass Amerrycan farmer is happy with 70! So at the optimistic price of $7/bushel that is $70/acre, tops! Poppies are gonna bring you many times that.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Yes. It said they'd like to crank up a government price support program, but the odds of that happening outside of a mortar's range from well-established US forces locations is remote to none.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Reilly, The Helmand River valley is very lush and a great area for farming. It called the Green Zone (unlike the one in Baghdad) for a reason.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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It might be lush but they're still a bunch of yahoos.
OK, maybe they'll get 20 bushels/acre. That's my last offer!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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"I don’t think nation-building missions are worthwhile."
George W. Bush / 2000
Conservatives all into nation building - it's the latest rage among neoconservatives in rehab. Sort of like Habit For Humanity - you got to build those dominos up if you want them to fall in line with freedom and democracy. Oohh, it just gives me little goosebumps whenever I think about it.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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They'll only get $20 dollars in Helmand if you pay $200 in Kabul, it will cost you the other $180 to get the $20 to the farmer who will then have to pay $16 to whomever allowed it to be delivered.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Who knows what's up. The heroin issue was well known and obvious before we invaded so how was the place allowed to go from hardly any opium to 90% of the world's crop?
The key word is "Allowed"
With the CIA's proven history of running drugs out of South/Southeast Asia, I wouldn't be surprised if we secretly don't want too much reform.
Peace
Karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 10, 2009 - 03:30am PT
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From Mason's link
"...In this grotesque carnival, the US military's contractors are forced to pay suspected insurgents to protect American supply routes. It is an accepted fact of the military logistics operation in Afghanistan that the US government funds the very forces American troops are fighting. And it is a deadly irony, because these funds add up to a huge amount of money for the Taliban. "It's a big part of their income," one of the top Afghan government security officials told The Nation in an interview. In fact, US military officials in Kabul estimate that a minimum of 10 percent of the Pentagon's logistics contracts--hundreds of millions of dollars--consists of payments to insurgents...."
"...The real secret to trucking in Afghanistan is ensuring security on the perilous roads, controlled by warlords, tribal militias, insurgents and Taliban commanders. The American executive I talked to was fairly specific about it: "The Army is basically paying the Taliban not to shoot at them. It is Department of Defense money." That is something everyone seems to agree on...."
"...The bizarre fact is that the practice of buying the Taliban's protection is not a secret. I asked Col. David Haight, who commands the Third Brigade of the Tenth Mountain Division, about it. After all, part of Highway 1 runs through his area of operations. What did he think about security companies paying off insurgents? "The American soldier in me is repulsed by it," he said in an interview in his office at FOB Shank in Logar Province. "But I know that it is what it is: essentially paying the enemy, saying, 'Hey, don't hassle me.' I don't like it, but it is what it is."
..."
What a Joke. The Taliban is not only getting more powerful as the conflict wears on, we actually have to pay them to get supplies to our troops. What if they get mad at us?
Peace
Karl
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Mason
Trad climber
Yay Area
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Dec 10, 2009 - 12:06pm PT
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A couple of nights ago I was listening to NPR (KQED) and they were reporting about how the Taliban are ramping up opium production and how it's never been produced in such high volume before.
That is a crock of sh'it.
The Taliban actually destroyed hundreds of fields of opium poppies before the US invaded.
Public radio. That's an oxymoron.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Dec 10, 2009 - 12:09pm PT
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The Taliban actually destroyed hundreds of fields of opium poppies before the US invaded.
And your source for that is...?
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Mason
Trad climber
Yay Area
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Dec 10, 2009 - 12:20pm PT
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Well, for one, my friends that and family that live in Afghanistan and have lived there for years while the Taliban were in power.
Here's a favorite source of almost every member of this forum:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban#Opium
"But in 2000 the Taliban banned opium production, a first[citation needed] in Afghan history. In 2000, Afghanistan's opium production still accounted for 75% of the world's supply. On 27 July 2000, the Taliban again issued a decree banning opium poppy cultivation. According to opioids.com, by February 2001, production had been reduced from 12,600 acres (51 km2) to only 17 acres (7 ha).[66] When the Taliban entered north Waziristan in 2003 they immediately banned poppy cultivation and punished those who sold it.[citation needed]"
"However, with the 2001 US/Northern Alliance expulsion of the Taliban, opium cultivation has increased in the southern provinces liberated from the Taliban control,[68] and by 2005 production was 87% of the world's opium supply,[69] rising to 90% in 2006.[70]"
http://opioids.com/afghanistan/index.html
"U.N. drug control officers said the Taliban religious militia has nearly wiped out opium production in Afghanistan -- once the world's largest producer -- since banning poppy cultivation last summer. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_production_in_Afghanistan
"Afghanistan is, as of March, 2008, the greatest illicit (in Western World standards) opium producer in the world, before Burma (Myanmar), part of the so-called "Golden Crescent". Opium production in Afghanistan has been on the rise since the downfall of the Taliban in 2001. "
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Maysho
climber
Soda Springs, CA
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Dec 10, 2009 - 12:30pm PT
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Mason,
What was true in 2000 is no longer true. Groups strategies change as their needs and priorities change. In 2000 the Taliban was in power, supported by Pakistan, and could focus on their "extreme islamic purity" agenda. Now they are trying to regain power, without overt financial support, opium is the best game in town, both for them and for the warlords and government side dealers etc.
Peter
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Mason
Trad climber
Yay Area
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Dec 10, 2009 - 12:38pm PT
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Peter,
Yes, true. And they also receive a lot of funding from US Troops these days which is not so overt. Or, maybe it is?
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20091130/roston
It's a real complicated war, that's for sure.
Edris
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