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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 28, 2008 - 02:36pm PT
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I will agree that traditional religion often has it's head in the sand and resorts to its historical simplistic, even mythological interpretations. I don't know why religious folks would expect that old school prophets would have delivered accurate scientific information and history to the ignorant people 3000 years ago. If your 4 year old kid asks you where babies come from, do you give them a lecture on sex, and the biology of reproduction?
Most religions have a mystical side where adherents look to actual experience and contemplation for answers. It takes an open mind and the answers many have discovered have predated scientific confirmation by hundreds or thousands of years.
peace
Karl
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drgonzo
Trad climber
east bay, CA
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Jul 30, 2008 - 10:29pm PT
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Bumpity bump bump bump.
Unlike religion, science marches on.
"A New Way to Think About Earth's First Cells
June 4, 2008
A team of researchers at Harvard University have modeled in the laboratory a primitive cell, or protocell, that is capable of building, copying and containing DNA.
Since there are no physical records of what the first primitive cells on Earth looked like, or how they grew and divided, the research team's protocell project offers a useful way to learn about how Earth's earliest cells may have interacted with their environment approximately 3.5 billion years ago.
The protocell's fatty acid membrane allows chemical compounds, including the building blocks of DNA, to enter into the cell without the assistance of the protein channels and pumps required by today's highly developed cell membranes. Also unlike modern cells, the protocell does not use enzymes for copying its DNA..."
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Jul 30, 2008 - 10:54pm PT
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"the god delusion"....thankfully he's a large god and he can handle flak from the kids big time. When you have a great dad you should not diss him all the time, but check him out.
Kids always know betta, ya ?...nodda
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 31, 2008 - 12:44am PT
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Here's a nice purport: hee hee hee
Lord Kalki will appear in the home of the most eminent brahmana of Sambhala village, the great soul Visnuyasa.
Of course, fanatical materialists may argue that this picture of Lord Kalki is a mere anthropomorphic creation of the human mind, a mythological deity created by people who need to believe in some superior being.
But this argument is not logical, nor does it prove anything. It is merely the opinion of certain people.
We need water, but that does not mean man creates water. We also need food, oxygen and many other things that we do not create.
Since our general experience is that our needs correspond to available objects existing in the external world, that we appear to need a Supreme Lord would tend to indicate that in fact there is a Supreme Lord.
In other words, nature endows us with a sense of need for things that actually exist and that are in fact necessary for our well being. Similarly, we experience a need for God because we are in fact part of God and cannot live without Him.
At the end of Kali-yuga this same God will appear as the mighty Kalki avatara and beat the pollution out of the demons.
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monolith
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Jul 31, 2008 - 12:57am PT
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Thanks dr, very interesting.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Jul 31, 2008 - 03:25pm PT
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Jul 31, 2008 - 07:55pm PT
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Brilliant, Norton! I just read your opening post for the first time, and without reading any of the rest of the thread, I just have to say: BRILLIANT! It IS amazing an amazing eureka moment!
Here evolutionists have been spending all their time trying to demonstrate how complexity has been ADDED, and YOU come along to point the way to the REALLY IMPORTANT question: how complexity can be LOST!!!
Those stupid creationists! Can't they see that the thing that really threatens THEIR view is the second law of thermodynamics? One of THE laws of the universe as we know it is that information is lost, useful energy is lost, complexity is lost, and so forth. And the process appears to be irrevocable!
So, these misguided evolutionists have always thought that they needed to account for how information/energy/complexity could be ADDED to organisms, how an organism could in effect get something from nothing; but NORTON is the FIRST to recognize that the real puzzle is how information/energy/complexity could be LOST to organisms, how organisms could get nothing from something! BRILLIANT!!!
Most people (stupidly, now that we see Norton's brilliance) are interested in the implications and processes of how an eye could come to BE, but NORTON alone realizes the profound implications of the process by which an EXISTING eye degenerates to nothing!!! Wow! de-evolutionary processes! The new wave of science! That information/energy/complexity could be LOST... the implications are STAGGERING!!!
Now creationists are REALLY on the ropes! WHAT a eureka moment, Norton!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Jul 31, 2008 - 08:08pm PT
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Ok, I've read the thread. Same old arguments; same old misunderstandings; same old straw men. Ho hum.
But DE-evolutionary evidence... now THAT'S BRILLIANT! Nothing from something... now THAT'S STRIKING!!!
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2008 - 08:34pm PT
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Finally, after some 136 very diverse and entertaining replies,
someone really "gets it", the emphatic final nail in the coffin
of those who insist on believing in santa, the tooth fairy, and a conscious entity somewhere given the name of god.
Madbolter, you make me blush with pride and gratitude. I am sure the original madbolter, beloved Batso Harding, would agree.
Thank you, thank you, for recognizing the true nature of darwinism!
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Jul 31, 2008 - 08:38pm PT
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Evolution is not about increasing or decreasing complexity, it is about change. Species change over time. Also, some species go extinct and others develop.
The salamanders lost their eyes but probably developed a more sensitive senses of smell and hearing. You can call that de-evolution if you want, but it is evolution.
Looking it that way, humans were the product of de-evolution also. Proud strong apes turned into a hairless, scrawny weaklings. But like the salamanders we made up for it in other ways.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Jul 31, 2008 - 08:47pm PT
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So I am hearing that most of you absolutely believe there is no other higher being..a human is it. The human and all life got created from evolutionary life .... A big blast, fish to human, (no relection on you Mr. Fish) etc. That's what I hear you all saying, is that truly what you mean ?
WBraun, "we experience a need for god because we are in fact a part of god and cannot live without him." I agree
Have said over and over, read jesus words in the bible, and come back and debate...no one has, so why ?
ps, he really didn't say alot, but what he did say changes lives for great.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 31, 2008 - 08:51pm PT
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Q: Are we not men?
A: We are Devo.
(Insert photo here.)
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Jul 31, 2008 - 08:57pm PT
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" So I am hearing that most of you absolutely believe there is no other higher being"
Lynne, by "higher being" do you mean a creature with more intelligence than humans? There are probably millions of different kinds of such creatures. But they are probably many light years away from us.
If the sun were a grain of sand, the stars in our galaxy would fill an Olympic-sized swimming pool.
If our galaxy were a grain of sand, the galaxies would fill several olympic-sized swimming pools.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 31, 2008 - 09:07pm PT
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Just so long as whatever they are, they don't evolve, devolve, or have divinely created Wings of Plywood. That would be the unkindest cut of all.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2008 - 09:13pm PT
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Lynne, YES, you got it, that is exactly what "we" believe,
We also believe that the bible was written by many different people over many centuries, by people who believed in their heart of hearts that the earth was flat, had never been more than 25 miles from their place of birth, and, were so hard wired to NEED to believe that somehow their own lives simply MUST have some importance and somehow go on after death, that they CREATED all known religions, cultures, jesuses, buddas, etc,
etc,. Wanting so badly to believe, sadly, gives no validity to the belief itself. Long before any organized religion, some 40,000 or more years ago, before homo sapiens, cro magnum people in europe buried their beloved friends and relatives along with some personal physical item that person liked, in the desparate HOPE, and thus belief, that the beloved would need such an item in the "afterlife". Even back then, the concept of accepting the finality of the end of consciousness, was too unbearable to accept. Yes Lynn, when you die, it is as final as the death of your pet dog, or a blind salamander. Deal with it, it's time.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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And only lunatics and small children believe in fairy tales.
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WBraun
climber
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Yes
For you it's a fairy tale.
You have no power .....
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Jesus said, look under any rock and you will find me. The spirit that moves through all things, God, lives within us all. God is in every molecule and atom, we are God, as are the rocks, plants, animals....etc. The miracle of life, welcome to planet earth spinning 900 miles per hour.
Jesus, Buddha, Mohammad, Shiva, Krishna, all one God, the God that is everywhere and everything.
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