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Dirk
climber
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Jan 31, 2005 - 01:59am PT
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Keep it real. Sometimes I feel like climbers make a big deal about bolts on walls, in order that other climbers may see them complaining, and note how holy they are. I'll start chopping 13's when I start establishing 13's.
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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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Jan 31, 2005 - 02:59am PT
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Keep it real!?!? So because I can not and probably will never be able to lead the BnY I shouldn't be pissed if someone adds a bolt or 5? Routes that we can not do provide just as much inspiration as the routes that we can. Holding someone to a standard that I can not hold myself is not keeping it real....
I'm not some rigid jerk who thinks that just because there were mank ass rivets on the Trip for decades that there should always be, or that just because the FA party put in crappy belay bolts cause they were cheap bastards it should always stay that way, but when someone starts adding bolts to pitches so the uber elite can free them or because they are just way over their head I think it is a whole 'nother can of sausages.
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Dirk
climber
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Jan 31, 2005 - 11:26am PT
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K-Rove, I'm not trying to take away your right to be pist, I think I agree with you. I'm just saying that if a person sprays for weeks about how offended they are to no end about Skull Queen, about the Trip, about Wet Denim, etc., than maybe they are talking to hear their own voice. Honestly, I don't think you talk like that, man.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jan 31, 2005 - 11:53am PT
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i'm here for he same reason every one else is...fk-u
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 31, 2005 - 01:18pm PT
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DMT
Ha ha ha, very insightful.
What a ride this place has been.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jan 31, 2005 - 01:29pm PT
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all that nacy boy hippy crap doesn't change the cold physical reality of steel in granite and the level of disrespect for an original creation that it took to place it there.
jah love
:)
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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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Jan 31, 2005 - 01:43pm PT
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LMAO You guys rock. Yes Dirk of course, incessant spray of any variety is more than anyone should have to deal with.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 31, 2005 - 01:51pm PT
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Lambone
Did you ask the owner of the universe if you could do all your actions. I’m sure you’ve shown your fair share of disrespect to the owner.
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 31, 2005 - 01:55pm PT
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Werner, i'll take a stab at answers here
by refering to the bridges, etc, are you in anyway plying us to step into the otherside's shoes (or slipper as it were)
if so, i guess that's where the question comes from. i'm a free climber, i spend very little time in slings, and most of that is spent making dumb "free climber" mistakes(like trying to crimp on top of hooks to keep them from shifting).
that said, bolts still rub me the wrong way. i like the idea of having some pieces of rock waiting for the guy who waltzes .12's, 30' out from a nest of offsets. it seems ridiculous now, but all future projects do.
i don't understand the "it has to go now; by me" mentality. if these people are truly trying to do the community a service by creating a "new route that will become popular as standards rise", why not wait until skills rise to the point where it's not a compromise. there will come a time when that line will be the definition of a bold free line, even with out the bolts, why not let that generation "create" the route?
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jan 31, 2005 - 02:04pm PT
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Werner,
"Did you ask the owner of the universe if you could do all your actions."
No, I only asked the Owner of the World. You have to move up the proper chain of command for these things. ;-)
The Owner of the Universe only deals with much bigger issues, like power drilled routes in Wilderness areas.
cheers
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 31, 2005 - 02:34pm PT
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Trashman
Why not wait?
Jardine didn't, Bridwell didn't, Kauk didn't, Harding didn’t, and these guys didn’t. As far as doing the community a service goes I highly doubt that. The frontrunners will always do the controversial. The fear of death is one of the most powerful illusions. And I’m not talking about a climbing (falling) death type thing.
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 31, 2005 - 03:40pm PT
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For starters Jardine, Kauk, Bridwell and Harding all had, to varying degrees, a lot more resources left when they were climbing.
i always questioned the line of thinking on the ffa of Geek tower. it's going to happen tommorow, so we might as well do it today?
Careful with that line of thinking, granite is enduring, but in the long run, probably pretty similar to sandstone in the short term. what i'm seeing in zion is a trend towards bolting cracks that don't take protection anymore. so do we bolt all the cracks today, so we can climb them forever?
don't really have any answers here, mainly looking for a barometer of community opinion
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 31, 2005 - 03:51pm PT
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Thats why I said the "The fear of death is one of the most powerful illusions"
Good you at least think these things through, instead off flip out right of the spot like some folks here.
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OW
Trad climber
Patagonia
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Jan 31, 2005 - 08:23pm PT
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Dingus, it's obvious that's you're presently high on chaos but it might be useful for you to actually understand a wee bit more about it before using it as your be-all mantra.
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Cool thread.
Owner? Owner of what? An old Dodge Dart?
What a lame bunch of crap.
Lambone, don't let off the trigger.
Chop those bolts!!!
I've got patching epoxy for anyone with a good cause.
Vroom Vroom!!!
Retro-Bolt Choppers of America
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OW
Trad climber
Patagonia
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>Here is my layperson's understanding of chaos theory as it >pertains to climbing. I'm sure you will hasten to point out >the numerous ways I am in error:
I won't bother pointing out anything I might perceive as an error. However I will, if you wish, point you to some references that might help you move forward from a layperson's understanding. I'd be very interested (in a decade or three) to see how you've incorporated the historical, ethical, equipment evolutional, etc., aspects of climbing into a chaos theory model. It would be even more interesting to see how much of your layperson's understandings you'd tossed to the wayside.
On the other hand, if you chose to blow all that off and merely solved weather prediction via chaos theory, you'd be much more rich and famous - and would have provided something climbers could really use.
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Mar 21, 2007 - 06:54pm PT
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Just read this thread.
So, Werner et al - did the spraylords like Lambone and Coiler ever actually chop dry lycra nightmare?
I recall other posts from one of the first ascensionist. He said he was mightily impressed with Todd Skinner, because Skinner had contacted him to get his input on freeing the route and adding bolts. The FA said to go ahead. I would hope that 'permission' from the FA would put an end to this posturing.
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Mar 22, 2007 - 11:58am PT
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bump
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