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Relic
Social climber
Vancouver, BC
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Dec 26, 2011 - 11:35pm PT
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One of my recurring nightmares involves a cliff overrun by Barley routes, all of which are rated 5.10 with 4PA and are named after various medical terminology. Oh and streaked with bleach with nice foamy frothing dirt at the base of it.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Dec 27, 2011 - 01:19am PT
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Always seemed flawed to me. Even the whole idea of the holes being so close and fracturing the rock.
Someone should write a letter to a manufacturer to sponser Robin's activities... If he will accept it??
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Rolfr
Social climber
North Vancouver BC
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Dec 27, 2011 - 09:21pm PT
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It's too bad that Robin is such a Luddite and never goes online, perhaps then he could defend some of his decisions.
I had tea with him last summer and he explained his rationalization for placing Staples and the science behind it. His deceased brother was an engineer who worked for a British rail company where staples are commonly placed in granite. He had shear and pull tests on the staples which surpassed or equaled stainless bolts.
My understanding is that the Squamish staples where removed with a pry bar after being repeatedly bashed with a hammer. This is the same method I use to remove Hilti 3/8" bolts.
I can't comment on the adhesive that was used, but will certainly bring up the topic next time I see him.
I agree he thrives on controversy and every one posting here probably agrees his contributions to BC rock climbing are unequaled, but sadly Barley Bashing has become sport with people who have never even met him. His most telling remark to me was " We all have things we regret and would do differently"
I also find the arguments against his Barley chain rap stations humorous, they are inconvenient and discourage top roping but have never been proven unsafe. Actually after this road trip , I realize how fortunate we are in Squamish to have so many state of the art belay and rap stations. Barley Chain rap stations or their equivalent are actually quite common in many areas and purposely placed to discourage top-roping.
My favorite ridiculous criticism of Robin was from a sport climber in Skaha, who had fallen off one of his mixed route and complained there were no bolts beside the obvious crack. " F...ing Robin Barley."
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bmacd
Mountain climber
100% Canadian
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Dec 28, 2011 - 02:54am PT
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discretion is quality completely absent in robins world, if parks bc banned anything but UIAA approved drilled bolts, with anchors placed according to standards set by the guides, we would see a lot less squeeze plays and grid bolting by robin. hit him in the pocket book. those staples are total bunk
face it rolf the sh#t thats going on now is ridiculous, its a goddam park now and it's a privilege to be able to put up a route there period, a privilege robin risks blowing for everyone, out of his and his alone complete and utter selfishness.
squamish isn't an area reserved to a select few like it was 30 years ago, and robin is the only one behaving that way.
so stop blowing smoke rolf, regarding the good he's done cause it isn't going to justify the f*#kup when the sh#t comes down, which it eventually will
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Dec 28, 2011 - 03:58pm PT
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You raise an interesting point - in the modern world of rock climbing at Squamish, who should set the standards for activities that affect our community and the public? Who speaks for climbers? Fixed anchors, gimcrack ladder systems, trails, cleaning activities, and on and on. Standards that will probably be borrowed for use elsewhere in Canada.
It's reasonably sure that it shouldn't be commercial interests, given that their activities to some extent conflict with those of the climbing community as a whole, and as can be seen in the Alps, tend to lowest common denominator (= maximum profit) decisions.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Dec 28, 2011 - 04:43pm PT
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Commercial interests may contribute to the needed decisions, but shouldn't make them. That's all I'm suggesting. And the climbing community as a whole should be aware of the potential, at least, for competing and at times conflicting commercial interests.
There are, of course, examples of commercial interests contributing in a positive way. That's not always the case - territorial behaviour on climbs and cliffs, the movie industry, promoting monopolies, some activities by 'sponsored' climbers, and convenience bolting come to mind. Climbers simply need to have open eyes about these things, as they need to have about their own behaviours.
It would be naive to believe that commercial interests always dovetail with those of the public, whether on our cliffs and mountains, or in the world at large.
ps And let's not even talk about people who write guidebooks and histories. Guilty! Guilty!
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Dec 28, 2011 - 04:43pm PT
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Is business bad?
Business is evil. I read that on an internet forum called supertopo. Some guys there said that business people are trying to destroy the middle and lower classes.
So business should be banned from climbing areas. You would know this if you read more information on the internet.
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bmacd
Mountain climber
100% Canadian
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Dec 28, 2011 - 08:06pm PT
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who should set the standards for activities that affect our community and the public ?
Well I can tell you who shouldn't and that would be the the old school curmudgeons with their Palaeolithic backward thinking ways. I'll name names if you like; .... McLane, Barley, Neanderthal and Denisova man to get it started. People whom should be would include the guides working in squish.
I support these new generation climbers whom are raising the bar, pro-active, well educated and making contributions. There people now whom are already actively involved in making policy with parks and doing a fine job of it. Jeremy Firmer is more engaged in policy decisions with parks than anyone as far as I can tell, and thats a good thing as he fits the criteria I have listed. He may have made mistakes and drawn criticisms, but thats part of the game with leadership
I would also propose fines for park policy violations, including retroactive with overdue fees and compounded interest.
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Rolfr
Social climber
North Vancouver BC
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Dec 30, 2011 - 12:46am PT
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I can’t wait till Squamish becomes another Nanny state with climber supported policing. Sign me up, lets add a user fee for climbing to pay for the bureaucracy we’ll create.
Even though there has never been a successful liability lawsuit against land owners/ parks, involving rock climbing or hazardous recreational activities, we should demand that all climbers carry liability insurance and pass strict licensing guidelines. We all understand that climbing is dangerous and there is an inherent risk of bolt or pin failure, and we voluntarily chose to participate , but someone needs to protect us from ourself.
Since I am one of the evil business owners, I will be able to afford insurance, licensing and my own personal injury lawyer when I clip the pin on Climb and Punishment and it fails. I know Gordie Smaill is still alive, so maybe I can also sue him for making me scared on his runout unsafe climbs, a least Parks BC should retro bolt his climbs so us testicular challenged climbers can have equal access.
If Baldwin and Cooper had a climbing advisory committee, they would still be in the bar.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Dec 30, 2011 - 06:23am PT
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Bruce- I did expect some comment, because staples have been such a hot topic issue around here.
I did not however expect such an interesting discussion.
Should Barley be allowed to place staples as pro? Sure...
Do I have to choose to use them and climb his routes? Hell no.
It is a shame however that some very nice routes have staples for pro. I have clipped a few in my time and was always unsure about it. Sure they'll hold a fall but how many?
It is a shame also that north american society cannot let a person take responsibility for his/her actions, but rather must find some other party to blame.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 24, 2013 - 01:44pm PT
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Bump for Frankenstein's neck...
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Mar 24, 2013 - 02:49pm PT
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Kyle and I were actually lucky enough to meet Robin and have a good chat with him a couple of times before i left for Vegas. He seemed like a good bloke. We saw him one day at Call it a day wall, rap bolting another barley slab.
Canada's most prolific route framer at work
Kyle took an interest in one of his routes there, and decided to give it a go, so he took an interest in us.
Kyle on some 10+ barley route. (Can't remember the name for the life of me)
He told us a little about his work crew, which included dirty harry, and the moderates they were trying to exhume from the moss and dirt.
Barley work crew hard at it.
I dare say he'll get a few nice routes out of it!!
I'm also happy to report he was using proper bolts!!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 24, 2013 - 03:46pm PT
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Glad he has taken the staples out of his diet...LOL
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Mar 24, 2013 - 05:20pm PT
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Apparently i was wrong. ( what's new?). My partner in crime informed me it was tunnel rock, not a barley route, and called verticle sine wave.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Nov 12, 2013 - 12:20am PT
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Barley bump!
Check out his new squamish guidebook, destined to be a collectors item.
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Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
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Nov 12, 2013 - 11:35am PT
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Bump,
Keep em high!
Steve
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 22, 2015 - 01:22pm PT
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Classic Character Bump!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2016 - 10:33am PT
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I did it my way...bump
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the goat
climber
north central WA
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Jul 17, 2016 - 11:33am PT
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Thanks for the bump Steve, I enjoyed reading what I missed 8 years ago.
Thom Nephew started Uncle Ben's with S&B finishing it? Guess I missed that one too. I clearly remember Al Givler's comments about his and Mead's exploits on The Black Dike. I believe Mead chronicled it somewhere....
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