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Paul Martzen
Trad climber
Fresno
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Jan 15, 2008 - 01:41pm PT
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Well, it could be that Bill is a piece of sh#t, but he is one damn tough piece of sh#t. I have seen him deal with stuff far worse than a factor 2 fall and watched him carry one with courage and character. I have not seen him in a while, but I hope to spend time with him in the future.
I don't drink and I think you can have just as much fun and be just as much of an as#@&%e sober as drunk. I hope that Bill gets bored with alcohol someday, saves his liver and hangs around till old age.
I think he will still be just as interesting.
As for WOS, sure seems to me that the controversy has little to do with the actual route and mostly to do with the personalities involved. But if people say that Bill did indeed crap on the WOS ropes, well that just adds to the legend doesn't it? That is pretty funny. Oh the Horror!!
My son brought home a young stray cat last week. Not house trained. Has twice crapped on my bed and twice behind the desk. Scrub the floor, wash the bedding, toss the cat in the back yard! Oh the Horror! I think I will talk about the trauma for the next 25 years, till that cat apologizes to me.
Hey somebody tell Bill to give me a call.
Paul
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Mimi
climber
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Jan 15, 2008 - 01:46pm PT
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But Pete, you're also an incompetent idiot and a liar, so why should anyone take your word for anything wall related?
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jiimmy
Boulder climber
san diego
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Jan 15, 2008 - 03:32pm PT
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How can a cow light its farts on fire without an opposable thumb?
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho
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Jan 15, 2008 - 03:39pm PT
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It's a miracle. One of the few miracles that has been documented.
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prunes
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 15, 2008 - 06:44pm PT
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Well said Paul; Oh the horror the horror!Enough of this dribble about this stupid route.I thought these two clowns are christians.What ever happened to forgiving people for there sins. Maybe Bill should go to confession and this whole shitty mess would be complete.
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Paul Martzen
Trad climber
Fresno
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Jan 15, 2008 - 08:21pm PT
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Yeah Bill should go to confession! That would be something, ya think. The stories! How many of us could cram in the listening booth, I wonder?
Seriously,
Forgiveness is important, but I think it comes before confession. How can we really have much understanding of our own failings? We are clueless to our own flaws, but if we have friends they forgive us anyway. Maybe down the road we understand the hurts that we have caused and apologize, maybe we never figure it out.
Mark and Richard seem like really decent and upstanding guys. I have enjoyed reading some of their descriptions of things they did and their thoughts. They also seem completely oblivious to why some of their words and actions have stirred up such negative reaction. Maybe more humility and some apologies from them would change the atmosphere, but how can they do that when they have no idea what they would be apologizing about. Naw, it is up to the rest of us to forgive them for annoying us or offending some big wall sensibilities and making a minor episode in Yosemite seem like a super huge thing. Obviously it was a big deal to them. Its gotta hurt when others put them down for it and put extra obstacles in their way. But it sure has been good publicity for them hasn't it? Gotta forgive them for that also, free enterprise and all.
As for Bill, since this is his topic, I have a heck of a lot of respect for him. I will try to tell an actual story about him, soon.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Jan 15, 2008 - 10:08pm PT
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Billy Billy Billy.... No matter what you guys say, he is still batting .500 in bringing his/our friends back from the other side. Very commendable. Bill is OK over here and all you 'haters" can, as BVB would say, "suk it".
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Jan 16, 2008 - 12:39am PT
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ALL you guys was azzholls. Every last one. Every one pizzed on somebody or their gear, metaphorically speaking... It was part of the whole thing. You stole food and booze, did drugs, violated every park rule, dodged authority, slept where you fell, lied convincingly when necessary and lived in whatever clothes you could still stand being in. The pecking order as defined by a couple hundred untutored monkees escaped from their cages.
You cannot expect that guys who would devote their life to asocial activities like climbing for months on end didnt have mental issues and illnesses. Its part of the party. Alcholics were the most normal of the old gangs. Everybody AT the party was a sick mutha.
This was the years when Nixon set up Hotel breakins/burgalries and then didnt think he was a crook! Even I CANNOT tell you all the things that happened in those years.
I forgive you all. Now go climb!
(Forgive? Maybe. Forget? Never!)"
Best post of this thread!
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Mimi
climber
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Jan 16, 2008 - 12:45am PT
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Best post according to who again?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Jan 16, 2008 - 12:51am PT
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Mimi: "Oh yeah, that Sabbath. Most Christian faiths observe Sabbath on Sunday. But then again, you ARE just a little different."
Worst post of the thread.
When all else fails, attack their religion.
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Mimi
climber
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Jan 16, 2008 - 12:53am PT
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I'm a Christian, pal. And you're missing the point.
And who are you? What is your name?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 16, 2008 - 01:47am PT
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"At the time Bill and others used to hang by their toes off of roof eaves and drink Beers upside down. Bill used to continue this activity at home on his pull-up bar and not only with beers."
Not sure why so many folks from the Midwest have an uncontrolable urge to get upsidedown - certainly Jay is seriously afflicted as am I. I still do this very same thing on a regular basis as I really can't do pullups anymore. Sounds like a rascal and cat to me. Probably a one of those cases of the acid not really being able to penetrate all the Wisconsin brew for maximum long term effect. I'm told that's why they were always upping the dosage in Madison every time you visited.
[ Todd, wise words... ]
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jan 16, 2008 - 03:08pm PT
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"I'm a Christian, pal."
By their fruits, you shall know them.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jan 16, 2008 - 03:58pm PT
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Mimi,
> But Pete, you're also an incompetent idiot and a liar, so why should anyone take your word for anything wall related?
The problem is, Mimi will try to deny all evidence which opposes her "cause" of insulting the FA party of Wings of Steel. It wouldn't matter who got on that pitch, if their testimony conflicted with her cause, she would never be able to accept it.
Fact is, Pete was there, in the company of Tom and Randy, they have photos. But none of this is good enough for Mimi.
http://www.jensenconsultations.com/climbing/wos/pete002.html
The route can certainly be questioned about whether it "should have been done" or not. But denying reasonable evidence will not bring many to the cause.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Jan 17, 2008 - 12:08am PT
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with respect, no, THIS was the best post of the thread:
"Man, I'm glad OW ethics never got this cuthroat."
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Mimi
climber
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Jan 17, 2008 - 08:53pm PT
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It's just you, Jody.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jan 17, 2008 - 08:57pm PT
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Hey Walleye!
Time to refresh this thread with pics if you please.
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Nightclub Dwight
Social climber
Outside Your Window
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Jan 17, 2008 - 09:49pm PT
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Fawkin hell, the dude knew how to hit up the nightlife like a deer in the headlights.
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Jan 18, 2008 - 01:05pm PT
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Hey MadBitch,
Way to ruin a nice thread. You just can’t let a moment go by without some sort of babble about ancient history and getting personal. At one point, I actually began to side with you guys, concerning all of this drama bullschist. But now, having seen more WoS crap on this site just about every time I log on, I am tempted to go CHOP YOUR WHOLE F*#KING ROUTE!!!!! And I’m a good chopper… So, why don’t you do us all a favor – shut the f*#k up and go back to whatever it is that you do. No El Cap route is worth this much wasted energy!
Here’s to Billy, one of the greatest characters Yosemite has ever seen!!!
-Bryan
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Jim Wilcox
Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
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Jan 18, 2008 - 03:54pm PT
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Thanks Bryan.
brass tacks were in order.
Jim
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