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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Oct 11, 2007 - 04:09pm PT
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Someone should teach Lance Armstrong how to jug, so we can settle this important scientific matter!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 11, 2007 - 04:41pm PT
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What do the physics calculations say about the ultimate limit for climbing the Royal Arches?
The real limits of climbing the Nose will be approach when two guys get good enough to free solo everything but the Great Roof and Changing Corners. Basically, take the new time for Soloing the Rostrum and Astroman, add another Astroman and some putzing time for a couple aid pitches frenched and you'll have a reasonably ultimate number.
There are no real limits as even the limits of the body may be re-engineered in the future through DNA technology and approaches we can't even dream of yet.
Peace
karl
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 11, 2007 - 04:42pm PT
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My point (and my strong statement of a limit) is that there are physiological limits, physics helps you quantify them and generalize them.
For cycling, the hour record has been very slowly increasing, with exceptions, since about 1892... in the mid 90's there is a jump, perhaps representing what various enhancements can do for you...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cyclingdevelopmenthourrecord.svg#file
2803 kJ/mol is 670 Calories/mol is 2.83 cal/ml
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Gene
climber
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Oct 11, 2007 - 05:03pm PT
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2803 kJ/mol is 670 Calories/mol is 2.83 cal/ml
That clarifies it. What was I thinking?
Just messing.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Oct 11, 2007 - 05:11pm PT
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"Someone should teach Lance Armstrong how to jug, so we can settle this important scientific matter!"
No, we'd get an idea of what performance enhancing drugs can do for you, which would possibly be an addition to the equation being discussed.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Oct 11, 2007 - 05:26pm PT
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Since the most-tested man in the history of cycling never tested positive, how long are we gonna beat this dead horse?
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Oct 11, 2007 - 05:39pm PT
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> For cycling, the hour record has been very slowly increasing, with exceptions, since about 1892... in the mid 90's there is a jump, perhaps representing what various enhancements can do for you...
There's no jump in the UCI hour record, which restricts riders to the same type of (traditional) bike Eddy Merckx and previous folks had. Other records jumped a bit, most likely due to more aerodynamic technology (since air resistance is the main opponent). So it supports your point that there are limits inherent in the human ability to do work at that high wattage. The pro cyclists usually have the highest watts/kg of all athletes (except for possibly a few of the nordic ski racers).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VO2max
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 11, 2007 - 08:13pm PT
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What about the ATP in yer respiration model?
click on the formula.
The point is that all the energy you get is derived from that reaction... you need the fuel and you need the Os, but that's what you are going to get. No more, no less.
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Oct 11, 2007 - 08:27pm PT
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Hardmann, Armstrong did indeed test positive for some kind of anti-inflammatory steroid, but his doctor was allowed to write a prescription for it after the fact. He was suppposed to need it for a skin condition.
Many don't realize this, but cyclists are allowed many banned drugs if they have some medical need recognized by the race organizers. A perfect example of this was Tyler Hamiltons broken collarbone in 2003. He was allowed the use of narcotic painkillers by the officials. He was a big attraction and they wanted to give him every opportunity to stay in the race.
These decisions are arbitrary, and not consistently applied. It all depends on who the rider is and how they feel about him.
Michael
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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In the NYTimes sports page today there is a story about "the Incline" in Manitou Springs, CO, a 1 mile long, 2011' elevation gain "trail" that athletes use to train on...
...it got me interested in the limits thing again. So I Googled the web and found the records of the "Incline Club". Taking this for 114 guys, I'd estimate the maximum power output to be roughly 0.46 hp for an 18'31" trip up the trail. Very much in the range I estimated above.
The minimum time reported is 16'42" which is about 0.51 hp by my estimates (used the average height of 68" and the aerobic athlete measure of 2 lbs/in-height for weight).
There are enough times to see that for this sample of people, the expectation of a logistics sampling isn't all that bad...
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