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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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May 29, 2007 - 01:57am PT
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Arg. Pat Ament, one of our most brilliant writers - produces something virtually unreadable because there are no paragraph breaks! I am struggling to read it, but can't. And I can actually read.
Pat! Edit your damn fine post and put some frickin' paragraphs in it so we can understand it, dammit.
Sheesh.
Great post.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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May 29, 2007 - 07:54am PT
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Chiloe referenced the term "crack Jumar" for 1971 and Ray Jardine, but there is an earlier reference to that term.
Interesting. I first heard the term from Ray, in the context of doing NIAD. Being less imaginative than others, I couldn't picture how that would work.
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snyd
Boulder climber
Asheville, NC
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May 29, 2007 - 08:07am PT
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watusi wrote: " Chris Schneider(sp) is that you? I don't know if you remember me...Michael Paul."
Yeah dude it's me Chris Snyder. How could I possibly forget you and all the killer times down in Josh back in the day?! How are you , brother? Hope that all is well and that you are still clambering around on the stone. I live in Kentucky right near the Red River Gorge and still manage to fall my way up routes now and again. Planning a Valley trip this fall. Hope to hook up with some of my old friends. Anyway, take care and drop me a line sometime.
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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May 29, 2007 - 09:57am PT
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Is that really the infamous Chris Slander?
Been a long time, dude.
I don't know if you remember me.
We used to hang out in The Valley.
You would drag me up something that was way over my limits, tell me i was doing a great job, and then slam me when we got in a crowd.
Yep, those were the good old days!
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snyd
Boulder climber
Asheville, NC
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May 29, 2007 - 10:07am PT
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Yeah, that sounds about right. I guess that I have to add you to the list of people to make amends to during my 9th step.
I have a stack of character flaws that I have come to recognize over the years and sh#t talking is among the worst of them.
If I hurt your feelings I apologize. I hope this makes you feel better but I understand completely if it doesn't.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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May 29, 2007 - 12:35pm PT
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hey chris,
you bruised the delicate flower of my feelings so many times it left me scarred for life.
but if you're serious about making amends, send me a c-note and some percs and we'll call it good.
your buddy,
the motherf*#king american legend
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snyd
Boulder climber
Asheville, NC
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May 29, 2007 - 12:47pm PT
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It's in the mail f*#kstick.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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May 29, 2007 - 01:21pm PT
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i can feel the love.....
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burp
Trad climber
Salt Lake City
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May 29, 2007 - 04:02pm PT
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Jello wrote: "I would never argue that Ray didn't do an excellent job of taking the idea and running with it. Seems to me the more honorable thing for him to have done would have been to develop the concept in conjunction with Lowe Alpine Systems, and we could have all been happy. As it is, I'm left with negative feelings about Ray, and I wish I didn't have those."
This along with the pic of the Lowe cam above clarifies it all for me.
Jello, just curious ... how far along was the development of the Lowe cam when the Friend went commercial? Seems like there would have been a number of years for development.
Unfortunate that there wasn't a corroborative effort. So many great items we take for granted now, originally came from the Lowes. Hopefully the Lowes have been able to profit adequately from some of these innovations.
burp
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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May 30, 2007 - 12:18am PT
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Sorry about my blocks of type. I just start typing. Are they really hard to read? One must simply be able to focus their eyes, I would think, but if you've had a little wine or something the eyes might jump up and down a bit and not be able to stay on track. Forgive me.
Jeff, I just realized you and I get to be guest speakers in a couple weeks at the big regional (or is it national?) gathering of rescue people, sheriffs and all, over your way. It will be good to see you there.
Pat
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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May 31, 2007 - 01:54am PT
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Yeah, Pat, I'll see you in a few weeks. Do you need a place to stay?
Burp. As I remember it, Greg and Mike showed Ray various versions of the Crack Jumar and passive and spring-loaded cams. My point, though, is Ray agreed to a non-disclosure, non-compete agreement before being shown these concepts. That's why eventually, when Mark Vallance learned the whole story, a settlement was forthcoming.
On another note, Ray's later patent depended on Greg's constant-angle cam concept and referenced it. That concept is what allows cams to work so well, spring-loaded or passive. In essence the Jardine patent covers the trigger release which was foreshadowed by the cable retraction on Greg's 1967 crack jumar. All successful camming nuts are derivative of that concept. Opposing cam-lobes of various configurations were fully obvious and referenced in Greg's 1973 patent application, as well.
The 1973 Lowe spring-cams and split cams were so revolutionary and unacceptable to the mind-set of the day, that not many were sold. So work shifted to passive cams (Tri-Cams), as that seemed a safer commercial path. Jardine proved that to be wrong, and the rest (actually all of this) is history.
Incidentally, Greg drew the link-cam concept over two decades ago, so it's not as though he's been left behind in the concept he originated. Second and third generation Tri-Cams and "Fan Cams" are also decades-old projects, that await financial support for development.
-Cam-crackedJello
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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May 31, 2007 - 02:32am PT
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Jeff, Roy West has me at his house, but it would be good to see you somewhere, maybe during the day or something.
Here's a little something I scribbled one day, that I came across. It's possible it applies, maybe...
Scattered rocks across a meadow bear resemblance to a city's ruin, a kingdom once engaged in robust trade, the politics of evil, rich and powerful, incestuous relationships that went the way of every world, leaving remnants of their structures, frameworks, skeletons of passageways, the shapes of scaffoldings, supports of houses, what remains of points of view. In stones of slopes the mouths and eyes of skulls are filled with bats and moths, the shock of their extinction, of its quickness, of their un-extraordinary passing. Faces petrified and stupefied. Their stillness calls to you a little bit to follow, life a time abandons in the interest of aloneness.
Afternoon is not responsible for anything but beauty, hair-like grasses blowing, poised and flowing, waves, like many currents running softly. Things the trees have lost and things they've left now call to one another, faint, surviving testimonies ululant and liminal. The silence echoes limb to limb.
Pat
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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May 31, 2007 - 02:44am PT
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Beautiful, Pat. You are indeed a good writer. That passage reminds me a little of Italo Calvino in INVISIBLE CITIES, a story where Marco Polo brings back to the Emperor stories of his travels and adventures. Perhaps when we visit a new boulderfield, it's an invisible city, never the same to two people. When we report back to the Emperor, he might not recognise that in fact we're describing the same place.
See you soon.
-Jeff
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burp
Trad climber
Salt Lake City
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May 31, 2007 - 04:41pm PT
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Jello,
Thanks for the reply. Alot of good details there on the types of cams you folks were producing.
I definately get your point on the non-compete.
Curious about ... (I'll start a more appropriate post to the subject - "Lowe's Inventiveness" {sp?})...
Enjoy!
burp
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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May 31, 2007 - 04:53pm PT
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Nice prose above Pat... now we just need one of the gurus (Watusi or Raydog) to turn it into a piece of visual art...
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Fatty, I think you probably are referring to the Spring-cam, which only had one cam lobe and one stem and never should have been introduced to the market. Split Cams, with two lobes and two stems, are actually more stable and less prone to walking than any four cam units.
Ask Piton Ron.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 10, 2007 - 12:20am PT
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[url="http://www.rayjardine.com/adventures/chronologies.shtml" target="new"]Ray's latests hits...[/url]
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jun 10, 2007 - 12:34pm PT
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Invisible Cities is a gem Jello. Spreads your mind out nicely.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Apr 28, 2008 - 12:28pm PT
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This thread has some discussion and even some players who could slide right into the current SF Half Dome thread.
Amazing thread.
Bump for incredible coolness!
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 28, 2008 - 04:51pm PT
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I thought the SFHD thread was all about 'How they got the rope down there' and numerology. You mean it is really about Doug's and Sean's fashion sense?
Buzz
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