Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Ouch!
climber
|
|
|
Apr 17, 2007 - 04:50pm PT
|
"Like he ever stopped lol."
Double LOL and a Half.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Apr 17, 2007 - 04:51pm PT
|
Tripple LOL with a cherry on top.
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
|
Apr 17, 2007 - 04:53pm PT
|
Jody. Some of the worst offenders are cops.. When you shoot pistol matches you spend a lot of time waiting in line for your turn to shoot. hear all kinds of stupid storys. Cops bragging about making some yuppi get out of the car at gunpoint and lay face down in the slush and freezing rain for a frisking just because the guy was a wise ass durring a traffic stop. Egos, power trips and guns are tyed together with some weid sh#t.
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
|
Apr 17, 2007 - 05:06pm PT
|
At one point I had to get an armed gaurds licence for some escort work that i was involved with. What a freakin scary joke that was. The RO gives the command to load six rounds and holster and one of the yahoo wannabe rental cops starts sending rounds down range. I hid behind the closest fat guy...
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Apr 17, 2007 - 05:11pm PT
|
Sure, Mr. Multiple Avatar. Whatever you say.
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
|
Apr 17, 2007 - 05:19pm PT
|
Jody where the fck did that come from?? Seat belts work we know that!!Duhhh The one guy who saves the day with his gun is like the seatbelt that trapped the kid in the burning car. Its the exception not the rule.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Apr 17, 2007 - 05:19pm PT
|
Common guys drop it. It makes me sad you guys don't get along.
I like all of ya.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Apr 17, 2007 - 05:20pm PT
|
Okay Werner, I'll do that.
|
|
Crimpergirl
Social climber
Hell on earth wondering what I did to deserve it
|
|
|
Apr 17, 2007 - 05:25pm PT
|
I agree wholeheartedly Werner.
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
|
Apr 17, 2007 - 05:30pm PT
|
Millions of gun owners, tens of thousands of shootings, how many legaly justfied? what is the exception? Find those stats for me will you?? That being said I still own guns I just wish I was the only one who did. I would feel a lot safer:) I even carry extreemly ocasionally if I feel that there is a threat. I just don't believe that carrying all the time is a good idea unless your work requires it or there is some kind of reasonable elevated threat level..
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
|
Apr 17, 2007 - 05:47pm PT
|
thats bogus. Gunowners.org is no better than the oposite set of stats from sara bradys site. I just looked at a beurea of Justice report. its old from 1994 but over a million handgun crimes in 1994 20,000 incidents of self defense most of which were against assailiants not armed with firearms. I don't know how to post links??
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
|
|
|
Apr 17, 2007 - 05:50pm PT
|
At least Jody can produce some sort of link to back up his positions.
Tradmanclimbs just pulls stuff out of his ass, no documentation offered.
|
|
Crimpergirl
Social climber
Hell on earth wondering what I did to deserve it
|
|
|
Apr 17, 2007 - 05:58pm PT
|
Here is Kleck's web page. It lists more recent articles for those interested in this stuff. He's a really rigorous researcher. Puts fear in wobbly/weak researchers when he comes in the room...
http://www.criminology.fsu.edu/p/faculty-gary-kleck.php
I've got one piece out for review right now that I'm certain is sitting on his desk. I know it'll get a thorough review which is a good thing.
btw, the peak of violence in the nation was 1993/1994 so the number of victimizations are going to be higher then. Also, you gotta look at each piece of research to see how they authors define self defense/resistance. Like I mentioned earlier, it often includes a wide range of behaviors from screaming, running, to attacking with a weapon.
Here is Ludwig's information. Again, some good stuff here. (Much of which is linked)
http://www4.georgetown.edu/explore/people/ludwigj/?Action=ViewPublications
My personal favorite is this one: Philip J. Cook and Jens Ludwig. "Aiming for Evidence-Based Gun Policy." Journal of Policy Analysis and Management 25.3 (2006): 691-735. He cites some of my work. :)
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2007 - 06:36pm PT
|
Hi Jody,
nice to have you back, but all of you quit throwing spitballs.
|
|
spyork
Social climber
Land of Green Stretchy People
|
|
|
Apr 17, 2007 - 06:49pm PT
|
heteroskedasticity - I can't even pronounce it much less figure out what it means. I tried to read one of those papers and it made my head hurt. It sounded like the guy said gun ownership didnt make that big of a difference.
So can you tell us why people go all psycho and shoot up the place Callie? I know, probably like the 'why do people climb' question.
|
|
Lost Arrow
Trad climber
The North Ridge of the San Fernando
|
|
|
Apr 17, 2007 - 07:04pm PT
|
We need to make it much harder to get a handgun.
Jeff
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Apr 17, 2007 - 07:17pm PT
|
Crimper, Jody, and Ron -
Now I don't claim to be a scientist or statistician. But a brief perusal of the DGU space does not inspire much confidence in the rigor of any of the root or core "research" compared to other disciplines I've been involved with. Kleck and Lott single handedly appear to be at the soul of an entire self-referential universe of the type the right and Fox News have been so fond of for the past decade. Significant cases of due diligence in corraborating Kleck and Lott's research and claims is pretty sparse and their methods and audit trails do not inspire confidence. I'd say several pieces of DGU due diligence that would be must reads if one is going to proffer Kleck and Lott would be:
[url="http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:44TQt1-KQS4J:timlambert.org/2000/01/duncan1/+dgu+The+Los+Angeles+Times&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us"]Otis Dudley Duncan, University of California, Santa Barbara
(from The Criminologist Vol 25, No 1 Jan/Feb 2000 pp 1-7) [/url]
James Lindgren: Comments on Questions About John R. Lott’s Claims Regarding a 1997 Survey
Reality check: using newspapers, police reports, and court records to assess defensive gun use
For that matter, just doing a google search on - guns DGU - and perusing the result is enough to make one wonder just why there haven't been a whole wave of serious research attempting to validate/invalidate/revalidate the relatively meager research offerings of the late 80's and 90's. Seems like there is a whole lot of talk and policy discussions going on that aren't backed by much in the way of real facts [edit: on either side]...
|
|
Lost Arrow
Trad climber
The North Ridge of the San Fernando
|
|
|
Apr 17, 2007 - 07:44pm PT
|
When I used to go on remote caving trips with my Hot UCLA Coed I used to take a Handgun. Once I broke down and had some trouble with someone. I had one hot in the chamber and ready to go, but the Guy decided to drive off instead of dying.
Jeff
|
|
Ouch!
climber
|
|
|
Apr 17, 2007 - 08:15pm PT
|
LOL! As they say, the bit dog howls.
|
|
Burns
Trad climber
Nowhere special
|
|
|
Apr 17, 2007 - 08:47pm PT
|
It would appear that the guns used were aquired legally, one at a gun shop and one at a pawn shop.
Not that it really matters. The point has been made ad nauseum that one can get a gun in this country through illegal channels without great difficulty. Although I've personally never tried.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!