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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Societal perfection through forced assimilation.
Of all the "issues" to get all panty-wadded about. We will still be arguing about triggers and sleights as the world burns and floods us out of existence.
As if whoever you stick your whatever into matters squat.
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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As I think about madbolter1 and her attempt at a joke,
I realize that he is the joke.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Ill just be glad when the day comes where we have identified and accepted every possible variant of human behavior so we can get past this exercise in foolish specialization
Just once, could the Lord of the Universe appear in the sky and declare that ALL of us will be awarded a Participation Trophy.
Nothing left to see here, move along folks, move along.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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"So,you all do like Alexandria."
You bet I do. She's a charmer. But I wouldn't vote for her.
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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I like dirty, offensive jokes,
so lets make this a platform
for the dirtiest, most offensive
jokes you've got.
Don't be shy now,
It's what a climbing forum
should be about, no?
And we'll have madbolter1
to thank for it.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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I have watched the AOC listomania you tube several times....catchy pop tune and young people having fun producing a good video ... The conservative d#@&%e who tried to villianize AOC for taking part in the video failed and had it backfire on him...AOC exudes femininity and beauty ...Attempting to integrate her with transgendered humor doesn’t work and crashes before it reaches the runway . Another backfire....
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 2, 2019 - 09:41pm PT
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The Fet, we're close enough in our thinking on these verbiage points, I think, that we're into the realm of semantics at this point. I appreciate your thoughts, and I think that we are more agreed that it might seem on the surface. No point in dickering the details. No two people are precisely agreed.
Of course, I think that you're full of crap regarding the OP.
;-)
All the best to you!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 2, 2019 - 09:45pm PT
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AOC exudes femininity and beauty
Uhh, no!
She exudes shrillness and nuttiness. I can't get past that to "see" whatever "beauty" you're referring to. Non-starter. DOA.
But, as they say, there's no accounting for taste. I actually chose her as opposed to, say, fossil Biden (which would have been another excellent choice!), because the left-wing tabloids, you know, the "media," keep her in our faces multiple times each day. When you're that publicly present, well, almost anything is possible.
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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You start a thread such as this
and hide like a puussy.
So nice to know that there are such.
PC enough for you?
https://youtu.be/0A7oi_8p-O8
'Nuther link for you,
Sister.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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[Click to View YouTube Video]
She said, hey babe, take a walk on the wild side
I said, hey honey, take a walk on the wild side
And the colored girls say
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Nutty
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The Green New Deal, she's the boss!
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Gnaw Mean
Trad climber
Manzaneeter
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Some people just take longer for the lightbulb to click on.
What a claim to fame for the old cruster white guy, to always win the trophy in this race.
Pretty sad when you think about it.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 3, 2019 - 10:06am PT
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^^^ Depends upon what you mean by "the lightbulb." See, it's a mass of confusion about how to "cleanse the language."
Take the whole "trans man" bit. It's a contradiction in terms, literally, to know how to cast the phrase!
If I say, "trans man," well, then I got it "wrong," because under the model of the OP, "she" should be referred to as a "trans woman," because "she" now identifies as a woman.
But, in point of BIOLOGICAL FACT, under the OP model "she" IS a man. So, "she" IS a MAN who simply identifies as a woman, hence, supposedly, "trans woman." However, that mode of speaking smuggles in the INCORRECT premise that identification equals fact. And THAT is the premise that most of us CORRECTLY deny (correctly if you care about biological facts).
Look, I literally don't give a CRAP about a person's sexuality, identification, etc. I REALLY believe in freedom! However, what you DON'T get to do is via "language cleansing" effectively FORCE me to THINK and SAY that what is biologically false is "nevertheless" true.
If you are a biological man, yet you identify as a "trans woman," you are STILL a man, and the phrase "trans woman" builds in a lie. But if I say, "trans man," then I "got it wrong."
This is not a mere "academic nuance." This is a point about whether "language cleansing" intentionally builds in a false premise that is then surreptitiously accepted and normalized. "Trans woman" in the OP example does that very thing, while "trans man" (in the OP case) at least anchors the phrase in biological reality.
Again, do (and identify) WHATEVER you want. I literally don't care if you identify as a purple, trans, trans woman-man, alien giraffe! Just don't demand that I "get it right" in the sense of thinking/speaking according to your delusion.
There are biological FACTS, and if your "identification" does not cohere with such FACTS, then you are delusional. That is the very definition of "delusion." Your delusion can be completely innocuous and harm nobody else, in which case I am ALL ABOUT saying, "More power to you!" I don't have a moralistic or Christian-right ax to grind here! But you do NOT get to force me to "speak correctly" so as to validate your delusion and build in the false premise that identification equals reality.
So, if the "lightbulb going on" means thinking/speaking in delusions, well, I hope that there is always a huge contingent of people who "stay in the dark." As with all these debates, there is a large measure of perspective that gets smuggled in. My perspective, and that of more than half the nation (regardless of party affiliation), is that the trans discussion is based on delusional thinking, and I don't accept the "pronoun trouble" that emerges on that basis.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/11/08/transgender-issues-divide-republicans-and-democrats/
Trans people should enjoy the entire spectrum of HUMAN rights! But there are no special "trans rights" that include "fixing up the language" to accommodate their delusion. Language should remain anchored in facts, which is the only way that reference can remain unambiguous.
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formerclimber
Boulder climber
CA
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What about "ladyboys"? Does this fly? OP, I think a trip to Thailand is in order (for strictly academic research purposes, I wouldn't suggest anything else)
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couchmaster
climber
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I caught the date/Fools connection right off. Got a chuckle, but given how argumentative folks have gotten I will add that I liked it much better than the annual "Boot Flake Fell Off" and "Castleton" (this year) or (last year) "Totem Pole Fell Over" April Fools posts.
Thanks for the change up pitch (attempt) madbolter:-)
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Think of it this way, MB1:
A person is a climber. This is the one thing they really feel makes them alive as a human being. This person loves everything about climbing. They are lucky to be able to climb quite often and in some of the classic outdoors regions in this great country.
Of course, there are others at these classic outdoors areas, and not all of them are climbers. There are a good number of hikers, and to the casual observer, the climber might be identified by the masses as "hiker."
But the climber doesn't feel they are a hiker. Sure, they "hike" to get to the climb, but that's not their purpose.
So, when the climber is pointed out by some person as a hiker "Look, kids! That person is a serious hiker! They must be going on an overnighter with that size pack!" the climber may think....a number of things.
It's kind of - but only kind of, obviously - like that. The climber is NOT a hiker, even though to many people the climber seems to look like a hiker.
I understand that you do not accept the fact that there are people who have the genitals of one gender but in their heart KNOW they are not that gender. I understand this because I have seen you post that you do not believe in transgender as a factual thing. But science has shown it TO BE a factual thing. You're kind of stuck holding on to an old way of seeing things, unfortunately, after there has been an enlightenment. This happens all the time. I thought cel phones with cameras was about the dumbest thing ever, back when cel phones started coming out but the Japanese were into the phone with camera. I even thought that their use of the things had something to do with that stereotypical love of picture-taking the Japanese have been labeled with. Eventually....I understood I was wrong. And now I even have a cel phone with a camera!
Maybe someday you will be able to accept that transgender and the variations within gender are actually real. But then again, maybe not.
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Keith Reed
climber
Johnson county TX
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For the mad one: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex
It’s a real problem for parents and physicians alike not to mention the growing child.
Our society is not grown up enough for the problems of birth.
But you don’t care about that. You’re interested in hurting someone.
You’re frightened and I guess I understand but attacking this woman you’ve never met is low class.
I await another wall of bs.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Happiegrrrl2,
I think you'd be good to go out to dinner with.
Be well.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 3, 2019 - 10:57am PT
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I knew that that (and the ladyboy) thing was coming. However, both are irrelevant to the actual topic.
NOBODY is debating that an infinitesimally small proportion of human beings are biologically gender-ambiguous. But THAT is not what the "trans debate" is about. The "trans debate" is ABOUT people that are, unambiguously, biologically one gender but identify as not their ACTUAL gender.
Nobody has the slightest problem with the fact that in the tiniest subset of cases, "identification" is as good as we're gonna get in truly biologically ambiguous cases. But such a person is NOT a "trans" person!
So, let's try to stay unambiguous in our discussion (the discussion itself not intended to be "funny"). We are NOT talking about the infinitesimally tiny proportion of edge cases. We are talking about people who are by definition delusional but are trying to tweak language itself to sustain their delusion.
BTW, thanks, Couchmaster.
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