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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jan 26, 2019 - 07:00pm PT
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I was asking MadBolt.
It seems to me that it would take a real piece of work to think of people whose lives you know the struggle they've endured that has taken them to need public assistance and refer to them with that term.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jan 26, 2019 - 07:11pm PT
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Forgot to mention she retired to take care of her daughter who was paralyzed in a horse accident and her ex who got Parkinson’s.
Not sure if she went back on assistance, but she had to cash in her IRA and his medical bills come to $9K a month.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_Michelman
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 26, 2019 - 07:19pm PT
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It seems to me that it would take a real piece of work to think of people whose lives you know the struggle they've endured that has taken them to need public assistance and refer to them with that term.
I did that as an experiment, and, sure enough, the liberal outrage is right on cue.
You must be thinking of somebody other than who I'm thinking of. After all, Fritz is referring to a pretty small amount of money per person. So I was thinking of more like this (which is NOT, sadly, an isolated case):
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 26, 2019 - 07:32pm PT
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^^^ Well, now, see, to my mind race had nothing to do with it. The 15 unsupportable kids had everything to do with it.
Like, lady (of any color), consider closing your legs every now and then. WE are getting tired of "paying for all this."
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jan 26, 2019 - 08:01pm PT
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The biggest recipients of government welfare last year were named Spielberg, mnuchin, and Trump.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 26, 2019 - 08:04pm PT
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^^^ Don't forget the likes of Hillary, who became STINKING wealthy doing nothing more than being a "public servant."
You gotta be careful to not single out only your enemies for special condemnation. There's plenty to go around on BOTH sides of the aisle!
Oh, and for your edification, here's US Census demographics. Maybe race is more of a factor than I originally thought.
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-97.html
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jan 26, 2019 - 08:33pm PT
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MB1! It's good to see you share the conservative obsession with weeding "welfare chistlers" off the govenment dole.
Of course, now that the latest Republican tax cut for the rich & corporations is kicking our budget deficit skyward again, in spite of current economic prosperity, conservatives want to cut social programs that cost money. Stuff like Medicare that used to be "untouchable" due to the public love for free money, are now facing cuts.
Meanwhile, that budget deficit just keeps rising, in bad Democratic times & good Republican times. I long for when Republicans actually did something about balancing the budget, rather than exceeding it.
The deficit rose to $779 billion in fiscal year 2018, up 17% from last year, according to final figures released Monday by the Treasury Department. That's the largest number since 2012, when the country was still spending massively to stimulate an economy struggling to recover.
Government receipts were flat this year from last year. Corporate tax collections fell $76 billion, or 22%, due to the Republican-backed tax cut. But that drop was more than offset by increased revenues from individual and self-employment taxes. The fiscal year ended September 30.
Spending rose 3% over the previous year, fueled in part by increases to the defense budget agreed upon in September 2017 as part of a deal between Republicans and Democrats to head off a government shutdown. Social Security and interest on the federal debt also contributed to the increase.
In June (2018), the federal debt — which aggregates annual deficits over time — stood at 78% of gross domestic product, the highest level since right after World War II. Updated figures were not immediately available on Monday.
As interest rates rise, servicing that ballooning debt could pose challenging. Treasury spent $522 billion last year paying interest, up 14% from the year before. That's more than the cost of Medicaid, food stamps, and the department of Housing and Urban Development combined. But it is smaller as a percentage of GDP than it has been historically.
In late September, the House passed a bill that would extend individual tax cuts that are currently are slated to end in 2025, at a cost of $631 billion over a 10-year window.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/15/economy/us-budget-deficit/index.html
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 26, 2019 - 09:01pm PT
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MB1! It's good to see you share the conservative obsession with weeding "welfare chistlers" off the govenment dole.
As always, Fritz, you can't read even my short posts with comprehension.
I'm neither conservative nor concerned solely with "welfare chiselers" in the sense you mean it.
I've constantly bagged on corporate welfare, "too big to fail," unrestrained Wall Street, big banking, and all the rest of that side of the aisle. You know, the very entities that had Hillary in their pockets.
You libs are too easy of targets. You are SO devoted to singling out ONLY your enemies for special condemnation, that you can't see potential allies.
Of course, I can't think of the last "conservative" I saw on this site demanding more corporate welfare, yet the libs here have individual welfare as a sacred cow that can't even be bled a little, much less slaughtered. So, you come across to somebody like me as a bit more rabid and single-minded in your hatred of everything that is, well, not you.
Try to mellow out a bit and realize that not everybody who doesn't agree with EVERYTHING you hold dear is your enemy.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jan 27, 2019 - 06:47am PT
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Madbolter,two things.
1)Are you yet aware that the cry out of "liberal outrage" whenever one doesn't want to acknowledge a point made by a purported Democrat IS one of the *chants* developed and amplified by the Russian 2016 election campaign?
Well, now you do know. So remember when you slag that phrase, that you aren't thinking for yourself, are being used. By a hostile nation engaged in cyber warfare with *your* county.I give you *your* country as a courtesy, because that's how the game is played. Do you know they even have a term for those who unwittingly further their agenda(such as *the* president? The term is translated in English as "Useful Idiot."
2) "Lady, close your legs." #misogyny
Do you think there are no men in this country that have been responsible for 15 or more pregnancies for which they had/have no plan/strategy or intention of supporting?
Oh, and:
"That was an experiment."
Sure, Jan.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jan 27, 2019 - 12:20pm PT
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MB1! Per your advice to me:
Try to mellow out a bit and realize that not everybody who doesn't agree with EVERYTHING you hold dear is your enemy.
In real life, I enjoy several conservative friends. We mostly don't talk politics when we are together. Unfortunately, I find it somewhat more difficult to appreciate ST conservative, although I did object & posted my objections to an attack of Liberal bullying on our long-departed red-neck pundit Ron.
Your frequent over-long posts show good English useage, but some of your thoughts are similar to what I used to encounter, when I was talking with Survivalists who bought outdoor gear I mainly sold to outdoor shops. I certainly have some conservative beliefs, but since you are pigeon-holing me as a liberal, so be it.
And considering your bad advice to me, you might want to try applying to yourself.
Try to mellow out a bit and realize that not everybody who doesn't agree with EVERYTHING you hold dear is your enemy.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 27, 2019 - 12:39pm PT
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Again, so utterly predictable....
1)Are you yet aware that the cry out of "liberal outrage" whenever one doesn't want to acknowledge a point made by a purported Democrat IS one of the *chants* developed and amplified by the Russian 2016 election campaign?
Thus far, that is "demonstrated" only in the "what happened?" liberal mind. What is far more demonstrated is how Hillary and the DNC employed every dirty trick, including colluding with Russian contacts to dig up dirt on Trump, to win the election. But, instead of looking to your own house and vociferously demanding change there, the last two years have been EVERY bit of trying to nullify and protest against this election that the left had warned the conservatives to NOT engage in "when" Hillary won.
I dislike the right basically the same as I dislike the left, but the left has engaged in two years of epic hypocrisy, and it continues right through your post to this day.
Well, now you do know.
Actually, no I don't.
Do you know about Obama telling Putin that after the election he would be freer to "work with" [collude with] him? And I suppose that we are to believe the media regarding the whole Russian uranium scam.
I could also ask you about all sorts of things that you SHOULD know about Hillary, but I bet that you don't know those things either. The media has created a circus, and you are playing along.
So remember when you slag that phrase, that you aren't thinking for yourself, are being used.
Pot calling kettle.
By a hostile nation engaged in cyber warfare with *your* county.
All sorts of nations are thus engaged. China, for example, is arguably the worst hacker nation on the planet. It's certainly one of the worst human-rights violators on the planet. I, for one, would like to see us cut ties with China entirely until they join the modern, civilized world (including honoring international contracts and intellectual property laws, as well as basic civil rights!). But all the left can do is support China and moan about the "damage" Trump is doing to the economy by playing hard ball with them.
You push for increasing globalism and are then shocked when American labor is gutted by the fact that, OF COURSE, American companies offshore jobs to those nations where labor is MUCH cheaper.
I give you *your* country as a courtesy, because that's how the game is played. Do you know they even have a term for those who unwittingly further their agenda(such as *the* president? The term is translated in English as "Useful Idiot."
That sword cuts all ways. Everybody now days calls "the other side" a bunch of "useful idiots." Over the last couple of years, the left has been SO frantic in its use of epithets that these just roll off the shoulders of reasonable people now.
You missed your target.
2) "Lady, close your legs." #misogyny
My point exactly. Rather than to, as a REASONABLE person would, say, "Uh, yeah. WOMEN assert full control over their 'reproductive rights,' so SHE does have the final say about who impregnates her and how often."
No, but you go straight to an epithet. As I said: MISS.
Until the left finally learns that epithets are NOT discussion, and that you make enemies of everybody who has not drunk your EXACT flavor of Kook-Aid, you are a lost cause.
Do you think there are no men in this country that have been responsible for 15 or more pregnancies for which they had/have no plan/strategy or intention of supporting?
Absolutely! But, see, again you are an easy target; actual, I can't miss! See, it's the LEFT that asserts that WOMEN are the SOLE source of reproductive rights (and, thus, by extension, responsibility).
You can't have it both ways: radical, male-bashing feminism AND male responsibility. Your radical feminism asserts that men have NO RIGHTS when it comes to kids and reproductive decisions! So, you don't then get to also hold men responsible.
By MY lights there was equal responsibility for the kids. By YOUR lights, there is NO responsibility, because there are NO consequences! "We the people" get to absorb ALL the consequences of unrestrained and ridiculously irresponsible BREEDING. And by YOUR lights, ultimately, it is the WOMAN who is the ultimate adjudicator of reproductive rights. Period.
So, YOU get to own it, and so does the woman.
Oh, and:
"That was an experiment."
Sadly, that's like one of those "quick comebacks" that occurs to you two hours after it would have been relevant.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 27, 2019 - 12:41pm PT
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And considering your bad advice to me, you might want to try applying to yourself.
The difference, Fritz, is that I don't attack you. I address only your points. You continually go personal and sarcastic.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 27, 2019 - 01:08pm PT
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Humility is admirable but in rare cases it is not indicated whereupon noblesse oblige is.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 27, 2019 - 01:14pm PT
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With rare exception, the impugning of motives and character is de rigueur here. You don't know me, and my "tone" is actually just standard philosophical tone. You should watch philosophers argue with each other! Believe me. I tone it down a LOT here.
You guys are weak! ;-)
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jan 27, 2019 - 01:19pm PT
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mb, I appreciate your views most when they are concisely presented. Though I'm sure you are saying something thoughtful in your walls of text, I usually don't read them.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jan 27, 2019 - 01:24pm PT
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Who you callin 'gentleman'??!!
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jan 27, 2019 - 01:42pm PT
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mb, I apologize if that last comment was excessively snarky. I probably could've found a better way to give you the feedback about how your writing style works for me. I want you to know that I do appreciate your thoughtfulness, regardless of whether we agree.
Of course, it's probably awfully presumptuous on my part to think you would give a dang what I think!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 27, 2019 - 01:42pm PT
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Nobody forces anybody to read more than they wish. Just don't "quote" me as saying something I'm not because you couldn't be bothered to understand my actual position.
There's a tension in a forum context. The venue doesn't work well for systematic, rigorous argumentation. But, our entire society now "argues" via sound bites and utter superficiality. I can't abide the latter, but a forum doesn't lend itself well to the former.
Believe me, I try to be reasonable. But "succinct" is a non-starter for much of what really needs to be said. So, I live in a state of tension here.
Don't read what you don't want to. I can't apologize for doing my best in an untenable situation. But I do acknowledge that it's untenable.
For whatever that's worth.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 27, 2019 - 01:44pm PT
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Of course, it's probably awfully presumptuous on my part to think you would give a dang what I think!
Actually I am very grateful for what you wrote, and I very much do care about your perspective. I consider you to be one of the people here that I will always read and consider.
Thank you!
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