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Bryan Adams
climber
California
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Dec 15, 2017 - 09:17pm PT
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Looking forward to your new book Marty! Can you tell us when we'll be able to get a copy of it?
Hey so I have a question for everyone. A friend of the climber's mom started a gofundme to help pay for the medical bills. Luckily she was a member of AAC, but it's still going to cost a fortune. If anyone is interested in helping her and her family, I could post the link (assuming that's okay). A lot of people already know her name is so I'd imagine it's fine to pass the gofundme campaign along.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Dec 15, 2017 - 11:40pm PT
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as a giant wuss who has backed off the climb another scenario is the risks presented by backing off from the third bolt, as well as whether a newer belayer would be taking the slack back in quickly enough.
partner at the second bolt. the third was up and left. she also backed off
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Ezra Ellis
Trad climber
North wet, and Da souf
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Dec 16, 2017 - 03:09am PT
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Bryan Adams,
Do you want to post a link for the climbers go fund me campaign?
I hate to ask but was she uninsured?
This thread makes me proud of our community,
Some really thoughtful discussion here.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 16, 2017 - 05:16am PT
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Traditional Sport Climbing
Hmm...
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F10
Trad climber
Bishop
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Dec 16, 2017 - 08:34am PT
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Well said Marty, I totally agree.
I believe climber responsibility goes along way. Climbing can be dangerous, know what your getting into. Unfortunately this comes with experience. Throughly look at a route before getting on it.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Dec 16, 2017 - 09:03am PT
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Solid post Marty.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Dec 16, 2017 - 09:03am PT
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In a nutshell, in a situation like this, effectively lowering the problem clip with a length of chain is an option that retains the route's original character more than chopping the original bolt and placing a new bolt lower. IIRC on this climb getting to the third bolt also involves moving pretty far left so a chain may still result in a lot of rope out.
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peter croft
climber
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Dec 16, 2017 - 09:10am PT
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I've been checking in on this to see how the victim is doing.
Apparently she is doing better so thank goodness for that.
It's unsettling,though,to see how the bulk of assumptions and conclusions are being made by those who weren't there. Marty certainly knows the Gorge better than anyone (and is one of my best friends) but, again, wasn't there. I was and so I thought I'd chime in.
First of all, I'm pretty sure the route in question is Enter the Dragon and apparently it has been the scene of at least one other serious accident.
Anyway, I was about 50 feet away from the two young women and although I saw the belayer a bit too far out from the wall I did not see any excess slack in the system that some have imagined. The girl fell and the rope never went tight. Having done the routes in this area I would say this one in particular is weirdly bolted - and very polished.If this were one of my first ascents I would have chopped it long ago. Retrobolting, in my opinion is a very mild reaction.
For those fearing the dumbing down of climbing or the loss of any history nobody is advocating a massive retrobolting campaign. It is important, however, to keep each other safe. If that means adding the odd bolt so be it. Or, if we witness an unsafe scenario, brave potential embarrassment and say something.
All of us have benefitted from dumb luck. This is something to be thankful for - not smug about. As far as I could tell the belayer was not to blame.
Although I did see the fall I did not see all that led up to it. What I did see was how she rallied to help her friend. On the carry-out she maintained her grip on the stretcher. Some of the others spelled off when their arms tired but she stayed, choking back tears and recounting fond memories and fun trips they had made together - first to calm the victim down and later to keep her awake when she began to fade.
None of us could ask for a better friend.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Dec 16, 2017 - 04:37pm PT
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Thanks to Peter for posting. A voice of reason prevails.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Dec 16, 2017 - 06:21pm PT
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First ascentionists put bolts in based on when and where they could find hook or gear placements, just like they always had, for the entire history of climbing. No - not really - at the same time a bunch of nerds were putzing around in that canyon putting in easy, shitty and dangerous routes - basically operating right at the bottom of the sport - Rifle was in its prime of development and Smith was almost yesterday's news.
The girl looks a little shorter, probably didn't help.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 16, 2017 - 07:59pm PT
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The girl fell and the rope never went tight.
Yikes .....
Thanks Peter for your input.
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Dec 17, 2017 - 12:03pm PT
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Don't trip Marty...supertopo is just an anonymous deli sesh. Btw did you give Dan permission to add bolts to your death route?
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Dec 17, 2017 - 12:18pm PT
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Am I mistaken? No, not really, Bachar was your idol and there a bunch of you guys were all trying to put up your own little Bachar Yerian.
Bachar approached Watts and told him he disagreed with what was going on up at Smith - Watts laughed, thought Bachar was a dork, went back to drilling the heck out Smith - and yeah - the rest is history.
If you have a drill and you are using hooks to be able to stop and depump, to get your head back together, you are an aid climber. Now that you know the route and the bolts are in, you know little about what it takes to OS the route no matter how much you claim otherwise - you haven't done it. I would go further to say the route in its free form is not yours to say anything about.
Bachar said as he was hanging there on his hooks on the B-Y, he was pushing it as far as he could to stretch the bolts out. If a bolt went in every time he set a hook, there'd be more bolts on this route. This sounds like the work primarily of ego, not boldness. I see more ego going on here than anything, and Bachar was your mentor.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Dec 17, 2017 - 01:13pm PT
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That is what I heard him say, in person.
He was speaking in the context of how exilerating the runout felt, so he kept pushing it to increase that exileration. The bolts took time to put in, he only had so many, the skyhook could rip a knob off at any moment so he’s also looking for better hooks as he’s going. He was telling us how exilarating that felt. It’s a clear memory, maybe a year or two before he died.
Was this distorted in my head over time - could be. Doesn’t matter though - you depump off gear, you’re an aid climber.
I think understanding the culture and the ego the victim stepped into as a beginner is relevent.
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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Dec 17, 2017 - 01:15pm PT
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Are you saying JB rested on hooks without drilling to lead the BY?
Unfortunately, he is. In addition to being incredibly disrespectful to the injured climber by bringing his antagonistic line to this thread, he's presenting factually inaccurate information.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Dec 17, 2017 - 02:24pm PT
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And a lot of the stuff put up at Smith in the early days by Watts, Brooke and others has pretty well-spaced bolts by today's standards. Certainly I had no desire to take the whippers on the top part of Dreamin', Heinous Cling or Darkness at Noon.
And I recall a well-known Australian alpinist and strong all-around climber getting a bit gripped on Spank The Monkey, which has 6 bolts in 80 ft of 5.12 up an arete. Not the B-Y, but not gym bolting by any means.
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ExfifteenExfifteen
climber
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Dec 17, 2017 - 03:17pm PT
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It's unsettling,though,to see how the bulk of assumptions and conclusions are being made by those who weren't there.
That's As The World Turns on the stupidtaco
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Outside the Asylum
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Dec 17, 2017 - 03:21pm PT
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Sorry to hear of the accident, and best wishes to the injured person for a full recovery.
I wouldn't dare to speculate let alone comment on the circumstances. Wasn't there, don't know the area, the people, or what happened. As a general thought only, though, gravity is rarely your friend when climbing, and the further you fall the more force you're likely to generate, and the more likely it is that you'll hit something. All the more so when a climb is less than vertical - it doesn't take much of a fall to hurt an ankle, leg, or shoulder. A 'soft' catch may make sense on overhanging terrain, for climbers who are experienced and prepared. But reducing the distance fallen by a leader on a climb that's less than vertical usually is wise.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Dec 17, 2017 - 03:41pm PT
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Sorry to hear of this. Best wishes for a good recovery.
There was a climbing fatality near Canon City, Colorado, Saturday. Someone fell sixty feet in the Red Canyon area. Presumably a climber, but the rock there is unpleasant. No other info.
Edit: Andrew Biebuyck, 27, from Charlottesville, VA, was a climber. No further info. Thread drift admittedly.
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