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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Godamn judgong from poll numbers combined with media Hillary won the election and it aint november..
Ohh well next time..
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Listening to well educated, well read people always opens minds - regardless of whether or not you agree with their views.
eKat over and out.
eKat, there is danger in this assertion.
I think of the example of William Shockley, the brilliant nobel-prize winning inventor of the transistor, that transformed all of our lives.
When he came out with his "definite knowledge" that blacks were genetically inferior to whites (he had no background or training in Genetics), he was widely quoted, and used as the basis of discriminatory treatment of blacks.
I don't think it is fair to say that he "opened minds", but contributed to a vast experience of second class treatment of a particular group of Americans.
Another example was Franklin Roosevelt, President at the time and considered to have one of the highest IQ's of any President. He asserted that Americans of Japanese descent presented a clear and obvious danger to the US, and ordered that they be rounded up and placed in concentration camps.....one in the Sierra, not far from Yosemite. I don't think he "opened minds" regarding these Americans.
15 or so years ago, when the Park Service decided to elevate the status of Manzanar, the Park Service person in charge, along with other Park Service employees received death threats AT THEIR HOMES for "showing support for those traitorous Japs".
I wouldn't say that is an example of "opening minds.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"...there is no proof that we can do things to affect it. ...
So...do you think there is any kind of significant climate change going on at all?
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Bob, there is not one shred of evidence that proves humans are causing climate change.
Personally, I find the CO2 evidence very convincing. That would be more than a shred, inasmuch as it has been confirmed all over the world.
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John M
climber
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So Jody, can you point to scientific proof that God exists?
I fully believe that humans are causing climate change. But I have a spiritual reason for that.. (heh heh.. )
Genesis 3:17 gives a hint about the possibility of humans affecting the planet.
Something like greed leads to certain kinds of physical acts which then lead to certain kinds of physical conditions. Everyday we affect our planet, in both positive and negative ways, and that includes changing our climate.
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Norton
Social climber
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So Jody, can you point to scientific proof that God exists?
sure, love is all around us
also, if you cannot prove that god does not exist that is your proof that she does
it's all quite simple when you reason it through..
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
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"...there is no proof that we can do things to affect it. ...
A number of years ago I was in a clinical trial when I had cancer. There was no definitive proof (at the time) it would work. There was a lot of "it appears" "testing suggests (this will be effective", etc. Six years later here I am. The proof often results from taking ACTION.
What is the absolute hard core evidence God exists? After life exists? We often move forward on faith without irrefutable concrete evidence.
Science holds itself to a different standard of evidence. It moves towards far more concrete evidence levels, than just blind faith; yet so many things we thought we knew change as new knowledge is created or revealed. To hide behind discontent about laws, regulations, etc is irresponsible and just pure laziness instead of trying to find solutions to known problems REGARDLESS of their origin.
Think of the Flint water crisis. They started addressing it PRIOR to knowing the exact cause.
Susan
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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So, let's say that climate change was naturally occurring. Would conservatives believe it then?
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Global Warming?
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jody,
It's been a while since I've seen an alpine beaver dam, TFPU. They bring such great fishing memories for me.
I'm doing some summer live beaver trapping this year to transplant some 2 yr olds into mountain watersheds around Idaho in an effort to help the runoff from several fires. Hoping that I will be able to go back and visit them over time and track their progress.
Oh, and liberal heads are going to explode.....lol
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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It's too bad the Global Warming trend became so politicized and monetized.
Although I bet humans may contribute to the trend, the question is to what degree. And since we don't know all of the variables involved with global climates it's a hard, if not impossible, question to answer.
That being said there is still room for common sense precautions and conservation of limited resources. We don't "lose" anything as humans investigating ways to minimize our impact and extend our stay on this blue marble before it kills us.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
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Jody.
Number 1. Do you believe there is climate change, regardless of its cause? I believe you suggested it in one of your previous comments. If you don't believe there is climate changes going on then it's a waste of band width to even discuss actions that might be taken.
Number 2. The Flint issue is not a good example because it was a man-made system.
. I use that as a point about taking action, regardless of its origin.
Anyway I gotta go ride a bike.
Your pictures are nice but I have no evidence they are not photoshopped or manipulated with filters, f stops, special developing speeds etc. Until such evidence is provided in some irrefutable form....they are simply snapshots. ;)
Susan
Edit. Cross post. You do believe in climate change. Just not the reason.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Jody, did you see HFCS's chart?
As Susan said, if there are things humans can do not to exacerbate it, why not?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2016 - 09:40am PT
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Amazing how some look at the world from their very small, small part of it and think all is well climate wise. Simple question to Jody have you been to China, Indonesia, El Salvador or NIcaragua?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Well, the first, most relevant question is whether someone thinks the climate is actually changing significantly in the first place...after that, the question of what is causing it & what are the factors involved becomes relevant.
And from what I can tell, Jody thinks the climate changing, just like it always has throughout the history of the planet, and there is no reason to think any of the current changes are significant.
Effectively, a shoulder shrug & an eyeroll. Do I have that about right, Jody?
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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why has there been no rise in global mean temperatures for almost two decades?
No sense in trying to have a productive discussion with someone who puts belief ahead of reason.
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Norton
Social climber
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If increasing C02 levels are so nasty, and "causing" global warming, why has there been no rise in global mean temperatures for almost two decades?
Hi Jody, did you not see the posted chart showing the steadily rising global temps?
you are not aware that we continually set new world high temp records?
come on Jody, you can't be totally in a bubble and walled off from the daily news
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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If global warming is not occurring, why are glaciers receding?
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Susan, there is no proof that we can do things to affect it.
Definitely not true. However, until we actually do them, there will be no definitive "proof". But that doesn't mean that there isn't extensive evaluation and trials of things. It's not your field (or mine), so it's not something that either of us would particularly know about.
I did attend a lecture last year at UCLA that had to do with changing the atmosphere in a way that would reflect more light. It is easy to do, but it scares the crap out of everyone involved in the science---as it should to take steps to alter the climate of the planet.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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If global warming is not occurring, why are glaciers receding?
Reminds me of the American tourist driving through central Canada, where he saw a farmer hauling large rocks out of a field. He thought it odd that there could be big rocks in what appeared to be just endless prairie dirt, so stopped and asked the farmer "where did all those rocks come from?"
To which the farmer replied "Glaciers brought 'em."
The tourist looked around, baffled. "Huh? Where are the glaciers?"
"They've gone back for more rocks."
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