Stick clips replacing leading

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donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Jul 13, 2016 - 11:44am PT

Coach37.....agree with what you said, just don't be one of those who project the hell out of a 13a and then call themselves a 5.13 climber...not even close.
Yes, I have been climbing the last few years, probably more than you and, yes, I sport climb. Sport climbing is my outdoor gym, it allows me to explore and develop the athleticism of climbing but I just can't get into projecting climbs. To me the essence of climbing is multi pitch trad where you are onsighting sometimes spicy terrain and being an all rounder is the most important thing...to each his own. Many others are perfectly happy projecting a sport climb for weeks....good, I won't get in their way and they won't be dropping rocks on me in the Black Canyon. The great thing about climbing today is the variety of ways you can express yourself.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Jul 13, 2016 - 11:46am PT

Sport or trad, getting up a route clean is a thing of beauty - I personally just find the whole 'hang, hang, hang, send, next...' loop in sport boring and tedious.

Fat Dad

Trad climber

Los Angeles, CA

Jul 13, 2016 - 11:58am PT

No disrespect intended toward Coach37 (sorry, I don't know who he is), but when you open with a comment such as:

but from reading this site and this thread, I have to wonder if half of you have ever been sport climbing at your limit or been climbing at all in the last 25 years?

what exactly is the point that one is trying to make other than, because you're old or soft, your opinion has no weight because you are who you are. Would he have the same opinion is we were talking about people using a stick clip on a 5.8 sport climb?

Moreover, with respect to:

and gets accused of ad hominem because his logic is not understood or agreed with.

I said we were getting into "ad hominem territory", not that he made an ad hominen argument. That probably wasn't clear from my post, however, that I guess that's my fault. Looking at his statement though, he is more or less suggesting that 'hey, you're old and suck, so you don't know what you're talking about'. Was there some other point trying to be made here that I didn't get?

For the record, I do sport climb (after a long hiatus from climbing for family/work/injuries) but not near my peak level, my hardest of which was a 7c in Arco in the late 80s, which I got after a couple of burns. I didn't stick clip. I just climbed it. I could probably choke out maybe a solid 11 outside if need be, but you're probably more likely to find me an a trad .10, so, yes, I've gotten soft. But again, I fail to see how that undercuts my opinion.

Again, I don't really care if people stick clip. To each his own.

Trashman

Trad climber

SLC

Jul 13, 2016 - 12:18pm PT

what exactly is the point that one is trying to make

I took the point to be "things have changed and if you've been absent, you likely missed that". It's similar to the red point vs pink point arguements that pop up from time to time. If you've never been in a 20m horizontal cave it's hard to explain why the latter is a dead term relative to modern sport climbing.

Your comment about "weighting the rope after stick clipping" is one of those disconnects, that's exactly why people clip their way up routes; in order to work inobvious moves between bolts with out having to reclimb the terrain below. This also allows a climber to try multiple sequences anywhere on the pitch, not just at the bolts.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Denver, CO

Jul 13, 2016 - 12:19pm PT

Glad to see you posting again, Cosmic. Again, my sympathies for your loss.

BTW, the "4.2d" line was rich. LOL

caughtinside

Social climber

Oakland, CA

Jul 13, 2016 - 12:28pm PT

Stick clipping all the way up the route is just another specialized technique that people
See better climbers doing and falls into the monkey see, monkey do category.

People have been stick clipping up routes forever to work projects. Typically, you clip up past the hard part so you can work that bit on TR. I'm sure if there was top access it would just be a straight TR.

Just like project draws, tick marks, gear stashes and more, these tricks often start near the top and trickle down.

What it boils down to in this case is dogging. Good news, if you don't like dogging, you don't have to do it. You can even feel smug about it. But it's pretty tired.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Jul 13, 2016 - 12:30pm PT

You don't have to be ...threatened by a different interpretation on the vertical endeavor.

Threatened by a sport climber coming it the Chihuahua barking from the bully pulpit? HaHaHaHaHa!

Fat Dad

Trad climber

Los Angeles, CA

Jul 13, 2016 - 12:34pm PT

We now appear to be talking about two different things. The routine use of a stick clip that the OP described is different than someone using a stick clip to work a climb at his or her limit. Re:

Your comment about "weighting the rope after stick clipping" is one of those disconnects, that's exactly why people clip their way up routes; in order to work inobvious moves between bolts with out having to reclimb the terrain below. This also allows a climber to try multiple sequences anywhere on the pitch, not just at the bolts.

I understand that, but not everyone stick clips, and not everyone routinely hangs after clipping a bolt. I get the difference; I just disagree with the example provided. Do you really think the issue is that complex? Climbing is simple. Clip, climb. Clip, climb. Hard part, fall, take. This isn't rocket science.

GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2016 - 12:44pm PT

I get they have their place. People aren't using them the way they were intended. Hence, stick clipping replaces leading.

Almost never that I've seen are they needed. Almost always some rock climbing is instead.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Denver, CO

Jul 13, 2016 - 12:47pm PT

A life well-lived is worthy of fond and proud remembrance. We're all gonna go. We're not all gonna go honorably.

Congratulations that you have the memories of a dad who did go honorably. It's our privilege to honor him (and you) as well.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Jul 13, 2016 - 12:52pm PT

Agree GDavis but it's a very small minority doing it, still loads of lead climbing going on. I don't care what people do, I do care if they misrepresent what they do. If someone leads with a stick clip, fine. If they say they led the climb, not so.

Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber

San Francisco

Jul 13, 2016 - 12:56pm PT

Awww gdavis is sad about people being able to project hard routes and having girlfriends....how cute awwwwww :)

Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber

San Francisco

Jul 13, 2016 - 01:09pm PT

didn't have a partner that could lead it, you wouldn't stick clip
just to climb something harder then you could lead?

No bro, he would harden the f*#k up and top rope it! Stick clipping is soooo lame! :)))

Pun intended.

GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2016 - 01:34pm PT

Haha yup. You do you but can't stop me from giggling at the hilarity of it.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Jul 13, 2016 - 04:04pm PT

Don't underestimate stick clipping while leading...it's awkward and requires practice. I'll designate it as stick following and put it between leading and following in order of difficulty.

phylp

Trad climber

Upland, CA

Jul 13, 2016 - 04:55pm PT

Almost never that I've seen are they needed. Almost always some rock climbing is instead.

There are plenty of sport climbs with steep strenuous cruxy starts above bad landings. Please feel free to "rock climb" these without a stick clip. If it makes you feel happier, that's great.

I never used a stick clip before I had a couple of bad ground fall injuries. One of these bad injuries happened because the hold broke off in my right hand when I was reaching up with my left. No hands rock climbing doesn't work so well on overhanging rock.

I am about to turn 64 and I still climb a lot. What I think about now is how many climbing seasons I have lost over the years to injuries and rehab from surgeries and how I don't want to lose any more precious climbing time. I love my stick clip. If I think I could get injured, I use it to clip the first bolt.

But I think your first post was more about people using them to essentially toprope a route they could not otherwise get a rope on. If you see that again, you should just offer to run up the route and set up a toprope for them.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Jul 13, 2016 - 05:02pm PT

Don't underestimate stick clipping while leading...it's awkward and requires practice. I'll designate it as stick following and put it between leading and following in order of difficulty.

Does one normally clip one, two, three or four bolts ahead? And is that off-the-bolt-sticking or is it stance-sticking? And far overhung roof sticking, hmmm, strenuous no doubt - probably causes a lot of rotator cuff injuries.