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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Belmont, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 18, 2016 - 10:47pm PT
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This looks like it might be a side view of the approach to the Warren Towers?
My that was an ambitious exploration, wasn't it? Did anyone get sick? Did you bring enough food and water with additional bivy gear just in case?
It looks like the Warren Towers just might be peeking out of the approach gully up almost at the top.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Belmont, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2016 - 01:53pm PT
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Thanks a million, Ed. Got myself an account at the site you suggested. But it seems to charge for downloads? But you say it's free for Lee Vining Canyon. I guess some areas are free and others cost.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 19, 2016 - 02:37pm PT
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they make it intentionally obscure...
from the front page click the "Download GIS Data"
the other button is "Premium Download Accounts" but unless you pay you can't get some of the content....
then navigate to the area you want, usually by county... I believe the DEM info is free, but you can see by the color of the download button:
the "green button" is the free download, the "gold button" is the premium (pay for) button... I use the info from the "green button" download.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Belmont, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2016 - 04:11pm PT
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Gold = Gentrification
Green = New Deal
Thanks for the navigation aids.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Aug 19, 2016 - 04:29pm PT
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Bruce,
What I need is a good graphics line drawing program to draw topographics and maps over .jpegs, .tiffs, .gifs and/or whatever. My old WordPerfect graphics program was great for that, but badly outdated now. Something real simple but versatile and flexible. Easy to integrate text on the overlay too. Have been looking around and experimenting of course but so far haven't found something as versatile and flexible as the old WordPerfect graphics for MS Windows. I guess if I really wanted to spend $5 bills for Adobe Illustrator, but there has to be some freeware that does what I want. I use GIMP, which is free/open source and works pretty well.
You start with your own photo, then put "layers" over it with your lines and text. You can then edit each layer independently without destroying the photo underneath.
There are lots of videos on youtube which explain how to do basic stuff. I use it on Windows, but it also runs on Mac if that helps.
Here's an example of something I made with it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIMP
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Belmont, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 20, 2016 - 12:27am PT
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My iMac with OS X El Capitan version 10.11.6 doesn't want to download GIMP (i.e. blocks the download, even when I attempt to override). What's going on? Apple doesn't want me to use freeware?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 20, 2016 - 09:53am PT
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can you download it using Fink? (e.g. through Fink Commander).
I've been installing software recently, though with my antiquated Mavericks OS (hopefully to depart once I have finished up this little project...).
Frequently you have to "right click" on the install icon and open it explicitly (as a security feature).
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Belmont, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 20, 2016 - 12:11pm PT
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Will try that. Wouldn't even download to my iMac when I disabled the security as per instructed. Maybe a right click will solve the problem (or $5 Benjamins for Adobe Illustrator!)
I feel very, very sorry for you Ed having to spend your days in cyber-hell downloading and installing software. Seems like that kind of stuff is specifically designed to frustrate and torture the mind.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 20, 2016 - 12:19pm PT
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not too bad... after about 45 years of dealing with software it seems like breathing itself... sometimes labored, other time effortless...
always necessary.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Belmont, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 20, 2016 - 02:35pm PT
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Well, after three failed attempts, GIMP caused my iMac to crash catastrophically. Installed 8GB of memory and now it works again. No problem, I was going to install the memory already. Figured it's really all the Nikon NEF RAW files I've saved to my desktop and never bothered to delete. Three failed installs often burn up enough memory to cause a crash too.
I want to go back to the Meadows. This computer stuff sucks. The graphics person at Express Printing & Graphics in Sunnyvale told me they subscribe to the Adobe InDesign suite for so much a month and then get to use 40 or so Adobe apps up in the Cloud. Subscribe to it for 3 months and then bang out a book with a whole bunch of Adobe products designed to work together seamlessly. Wonder if that's what Charlie Barrett does when he's putting together those bouldering guides while working as a cook at the T. Meadows grill? No need of a fixed abode or a stand-alone PC/Mac.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Belmont, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 20, 2016 - 11:07pm PT
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Here's a preliminary topo of the Far East Ellery Arete with the 5.6 line marked:
Correct away EG! Just guessing about the start of the line. That 24.2 MP sensor sure brings out a lot of detail.
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ablegabel
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 21, 2016 - 08:52am PT
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Hi Bruce,
That looks pretty good. I'd adjust the start a little as shown below, but I think once your out there, most people will find there way. We always tried to stay on the high point of the ridge on all those climbs, and that's the only route finding skill needed.
Also, I think you need more contrast in color, where you put the grade. The yellow 5.6 is a little hard to see. This is something Ed was pointing out on my overlays when we were working on our book project the other day.
 Eric Gabel
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ablegabel
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 21, 2016 - 10:18am PT
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Bruce,
here is another route you may not know about, and would be a good one to put in your book, since it's in the scope of the area you are covering. It tops out on the 5.6 ridge that you overlaid, right near the high point in your photo.
This was posted on Supertopo "Possible new route on Dana Plateau" July 28 2010 by "The Alpine". His route is 8 pitches and 5.10+.
Here is another photo of the ridge looking toward Third Pillar, taken toward the end of it by "Footloose". He had walked out on it from the Dana Plateau to check out some rock.
These is a shot taken by QITNL looking back at the ridge from The Dana Plateau.
There's a lot of good rock up there to be explored.
Eric Gabel
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Belmont, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 21, 2016 - 01:36pm PT
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Yah, I know about the problem with the yellow only too well. The Mountain Project software only gives you a few color selections, none of them too good. However, it does come out when printed on good paper. I'll make a note - as you suggest - about staying on the ridge. Seems pretty obvious.
I've heard about that 5.6 route to the right of Third Pillar before. May have even seen an early topo around TM Rescue Site. Believe there is a rumor that it was done by the Third Pillar FA team sometime back in the mid-70s. Bet Don Reid knows a lot about the history of that area since he was up there exploring the Chicken Foot cracks with Grant Hiskes and Scott Cole c. 1977.
Amazing - sat right next to Grant a couple of days ago for breakfast at Tioga Pass Resort. Should have asked him. "Those who know don't say. Those who say don't know". But a lot of people have been stomping around that area over the years searching for FAs.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Belmont, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 21, 2016 - 02:04pm PT
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Also, I think you need more contrast in color, where you put the grade. The yellow 5.6 is a little hard to see. This is something Ed was pointing out on my overlays when we were working on our book project the other day.
Eric Gabel
The yellow 5.6 looks fine on Facebook, but FB is probably optimized for sRGB (as is the Web). ST has a 8 MB gateway for jpeg pic files too. FB is more like 15 MBytes so more and richer colors are displayed. And now all the printers use Adobe .pdf and Adobe 1998 RGB. They want you to only use Adobe apps. The Great Print Shop conspiracy! If you want to display an 'peg image on the Web, use sRGB. If you want to print it on paper, use Adobe 1998 RGB. The great divide!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 21, 2016 - 02:50pm PT
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take a look at the "info" on what ever editor you're using (Gimp?) as you float the cursor over the path, it should tell you the RGB values for the ridge colors in the photo.
the color with maximum contrast would be those where you subtract the ridge colors from 255 for each of the three colors, you can put those in when you select the color for the line... and that line should show up really nicely!
another trick is to make the dots larger, but also reduce their opacity to something like 50-70% which will allow some of the background detail through.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Belmont, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 21, 2016 - 03:06pm PT
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You hired for the job of my graphics attendant, Ed! I need someone like you with an encyclopedic knowledge of the entire .jpeg spec to rush me to print. Luckily an entire Lee Vining Canyon guide is a long way off in the future and there's plenty of time to fix the details. Right now I'm shoveling data into the hooper. Cooking it down in pre-press comes later on.
There's got to be a hundred undocumented routes in Lee Vining Canyon. That's why the next edition of the Ellery Guide is going to only have 3 new areas: The Ellery Arete Ridges, The Sphinx, and the Golden Rock (Speed of Life etc. etc.).
Set you sights low enough and you can achieve them!
Those lines incidentally are grabbed off the Mountain Project software, which I can't really control like GIMP. That's why I'm looking for a stand-alone dedicated software program. Screen calibration is a big issue on the web too. Just ask a professional photographer about that nightmare.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 21, 2016 - 03:30pm PT
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when you have a big monkey jumping on your back, the littler monkeys don't seem so bad...
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Belmont, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 21, 2016 - 03:51pm PT
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I was advised to adopt an Agile software development model for this huge-mongus project: Build each rev. in small manageable, self-contained increments. Golden Rock (i.e. Speed of Life), The Sphinx, and the Ellery Arete Ridges, taken together, add less than 10 pages to the original guidebook. That's a manageable jumping off point for the whole banana.
Of course, unless there's a great catastrophe, this ST string isn't going to go away and can serve as a holding bin for information to be included later on. I've heard rumors about that 5.6 route to the right of Third Pillar for ages. Would be nice to get a more detailed topo to eventually include in Das Buch.
I adopted line drawings over photographs for the first edition simply because that was quick and easy. But I know there should be more detailed topographic drawings to clarify what the photographs don't show. That's where the real work will come in.
How about a short history of climbing in Lee Vining Canyon? That is no simple feat either.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Aug 21, 2016 - 04:08pm PT
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Cool stuff, Eric. How hard is the run-out stuff on Trad Dad? That looks like a really fun formation!
BAd
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SuperTopo on the Web
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Let us know!