Is human activity responsible for climate change?

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tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Apr 4, 2016 - 09:54pm PT
Given our current dilemma, what is a sustainable global population? According to www.worldpopulationbalance.org...

Global Footprint Network data shows that humanity uses the equivalent of 1.6 planet Earths to provide the renewable resources we use and absorb our waste. If all 7+ billion of us were to enjoy a European standard of living - which is about half the consumption of the average American - the Earth could sustainably support only about 2 billion people.

reference:“World Footprint”. Global Footprint Network. Accessed November 2015. footprintnetwork.org/en/index.php/GFN/page/world_footprint/.
clifff

Mountain climber
golden, rollin hills of California
Apr 4, 2016 - 10:49pm PT

According to researchers quoted in the 22 September 2015 issue of The Siberian Times, the rare media outlet that is willing to address abrupt climate change in a meaningful manner, those massive craters on the Yamal Peninsula are, in fact, created by the release of methane. Furthermore, more craters are expected due to eruptions as permafrost continues to melt.

It turns out those giant, methane-emitting craters in the Yamal region of Siberia have subsea counterparts. A paper in the 7 August 2015 issue of Journal of Geophysical Research: Earth Science connects the craters on land with those in the adjacent, shallow South Kara Sea. According a write-up in The Siberian Times: “Large mounds — described as pingos — have been identified on the seabed off the Yamal Peninsula, and their formation is seen as due to the thawing of subsea permafrost, causing a ‘high accumulation’ of methane gas.”

The importance of methane cannot be overstated. Increasingly, evidence points to a methane burst underlying the Great Dying associated with the end-Permian extinction event, as pointed out in the 31 March 2014 issue of Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. As Malcolm Light reported on 14 July 2014: “There are such massive reserves of methane in the subsea Arctic methane hydrates, that if only a few percent of them are released, they will lead to a jump in the average temperature of the Earth’s atmosphere of 10 degrees C and produce a ‘Permian’ style major extinction event which will kill us all. Apparently a 5 C rise in global-average temperature was responsible for the Great Dying, according to Michael Benton’s book on the topic. In that case, the rise is temperature requires tens of thousands of years.

Discussion about methane release from the Arctic Ocean has been quite heated (pun intended). Paul Beckwith was criticized by the conservative website, Skeptical Science. His response from 9 August 2013 is here.

Robert Scribbler provides a terrifying summary 24 February 2014, and concludes, “two particularly large and troubling ocean to atmosphere methane outbursts were observed” in the Arctic Ocean. Such an event hasn’t occurred during the last 45 million years. Scribbler’s bottom line: “that time of dangerous and explosive reawakening, increasingly, seems to be now.”
http://guymcpherson.com/climate-chaos/climate-change-summary-and-update/
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Apr 4, 2016 - 11:18pm PT
Global Footprint Network data shows that humanity uses the equivalent of 1.6 planet Earths to provide the renewable resources we use and absorb our waste. If all 7+ billion of us were to enjoy a European standard of living - which is about half the consumption of the average American - the Earth could sustainably support only about 2 billion people.

well that's somethin we can work with!

so easily enough we should be able to figure out the 'standard' for, say, 9-10 bil(prolly what the population will be once it's implemented)and we'll level the board to there, worldwide. Each persons footprint allowance!

if there be only a certain amount of allowable sustainable life giving atmosphere, certainly it should be dallied out equally among the participants?

i'm askin questions.

Your population control smells like elitism. Who's gonna decide at what standard do we start gas'in people??

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 4, 2016 - 11:44pm PT
It works both ways.


Climate change is responsible for human behavior

and

Human behavior is responsible for climate change.



About 12,000 years ago, there were neolithic talking heads (grunting heads) who blamed climate change on human activity (not sacrificing animals quickly enough), and warned that ocean levels would quickly rise. The ocean levels did rise, about 100m, submerging quite a few coastal cities, such as those you can tourist-dive off the coast of southern Spain, and that one in Japan.

That climate change period caused people to move inland, and build new cities.


In the future, Egyptian, Assyrian and Minoan tourists will scuba dive down to what is now New York City, and gawk at the antique ruins.





If the stoopid earth had just stayed cold, as during the last ice age, people would have been busy trying to find food, and wouldn't have had time to invent things like central heating, jet airliners and the Los Angeles freeway system. The oxidation of 100 million years' worth of accumulated hydrocarbons in 150 years would never have happened.

It's the stoopid earth's own fault.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Apr 5, 2016 - 12:01am PT
^^^ it's atleast the earths capabilities!

I still like my question better tho.

I think the constitution has some splain'in to do concerning an individual's footprint size!?
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Apr 5, 2016 - 11:29am PT
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Apr 5, 2016 - 12:31pm PT
Optimism has no place on ST Moose.
Besides, if there is no more climate change alarm what would we do with all those bored humans?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Apr 5, 2016 - 04:15pm PT
The satellite shows sea levels rising a little over 1 1/2" per decade. Or a little a one foot per century.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 5, 2016 - 04:28pm PT

Remember the climate change thread that was deleted?

thousands and thousands of posts

stupid planet keeps setting heat records every year now

crop failure in Europe last summer due to heat and drought

three years ago here in the US heat and drought hit the crops and sent prices up sharply

but hey, why should I care, I had to wear a jacket today so I call BS on climate change
mountain girl

Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 5, 2016 - 08:59pm PT
Hey Moosedrool,
Love your perspective !
Been enjoying the thoughts on the topic
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 6, 2016 - 04:22am PT
Has anybody done a thermal expansion analysis of the earth's crust, for a few degrees of warming? It would seem that even a teeny rate of thermal expansion, over very long distances, would lead to massive crust displacements, earthquakes and volcanoes.




Ancient societies apparently suffered an environmental disaster, not unlike a global warming event.

Perfect storm destroyed Bronze Age civilizations


mountain girl

Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 6, 2016 - 05:40am PT
Would love to climb together again during Facelift, Moosedrool! On my way to Moab soon.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Apr 6, 2016 - 05:45am PT
It would seem that even a teeny rate of thermal expansion, over very long distances, would lead to massive crust displacements, earthquakes and volcanoes.

One more thing to worry over.

Thanks Tom.
F

climber
away from the ground
Apr 11, 2016 - 09:26pm PT
What what what!?!

Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin is promoting a new climate change-denying film and will take part in a panel discussion at a Washington, D.C. screening, Variety reported on Monday.

The film, called “Climate Hustle,” is produced by a conservative organization called Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow and its affiliated ClimateDepot.com. It will be shown on May 2 at 400 theaters nationwide, Variety reported.

At the Washington screening, Palin and others will gather to discuss the issue, including educator Bill Nye, whom ClimateDepot.com refers to as a “warmist.”

U.S. Rep. Lamar Smith, the Texas Republican who chairs the House Science, Space and Technology Committee and who has been battling the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration over what he claims is the “science fiction” of climate change, will also speak at the D.C. event.

Palin told Variety she is “passionate” about debunking climate change theories, and that the film supports her position. “We’ve been told by fearmongers that global warming is due to man’s activities and this presents strong arguments against that in a very relatable way,” she told Variety.

Her current position appears to be at odds with the stance she took in her first year as governor. In 2007, she used an administrative order to create an Alaska Climate Change Sub-Cabinet. Her administrative order cites the rapid warming of Alaska and other northern latitude areas and identifies it as a wide-ranging problem for the state.

“Climate change is not just an environmental issue,” the order reads. “It is also a social, cultural, and economic issue important to all Alaskans. As a result of this warming, coastal erosion, thawing permafrost, retreating sea ice, record forest fires, and other changes are affecting, and will continue to affect, the lifestyles and livelihoods of Alaskans,” the executive order says.

The executive order specifically identifies greenhouse gas emissions as the cause of climate change; it touts Alaska natural gas as a “low carbon fuel to help the nation reduce its overall greenhouse gas emissions,” and it directs the group to investigate carbon-trading opportunities for Alaska.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 11, 2016 - 10:38pm PT
U.S. Rep. Lamar Smith, the Texas Republican who chairs the House Science, Space and Technology Committee

That is absurd.

That is like a cocaine-abusing, prostitute-screwing, degenerate gambler money-addict being in charge of the Treasury (Henry Paulson).




There really is no limit to the depths that lunatic right-wingers will go to further their demented agendas.

They appoint a scientifically-illiterate billy-bob religious fanatic from Texas to head up the Science Committee, and then applaud when he spouts total nonsense that is at odds with what 99.9% of real scientists know to be true.


“All that stuff I was taught about evolution and embryology and Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell.” - Lamar Smith



Amazing.

Ayn Rand's predictive babblings about people engaging in reality denial have come true. But, it's the right-wing, conservative, moneyed elites who are in reality denial.

Not surprisingly, Rand's books portray the liberal, left-wingers as the reality deniers, and the right-wing elites as the enlightened saviors of society.

And, not surprisingly, the scientifically-illiterate Any Rand put forth such absurdities as a cloaking device for an entire canyon in the Rockies, and an endless, free supply of available power from static electricity harvested from the atmosphere.


Scott Walker has openly stated his admiration for Ayn Rand's lunacy. But, that just might be from a scrip that his wealthy controllers have given him.
F

climber
away from the ground
Apr 11, 2016 - 10:45pm PT
Woah Bro.
I was just pointing out Palins about face on climate change from when she was Guv, to 8 years later when she is now.... Ummm what is she now?

I'm sure that Lamar guy means well.
Ayn Rand just ate to many mushrooms is all.

And where is Palins neighbor, Rick S., when you need him.
I've got some siding that needs to be fixed, and I'd like some more insight into the science of climate change conspiracy.
CHEMTRAILS MAN!!!!!
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Apr 12, 2016 - 07:40am PT
Yeah. The short answer to the OP is yes. I know a lot of petroleum geologists, and we know deep time and the changes in paleoclimate.

Most of the sea level changes, which control the depositional environments of reservoir rocks, are mainly due to Milankovich cycles. That would be oscillations and precessions in the Earth's orbit and axial tilt.

However, high greenhouse gasses will cause warming. It is a complicated topic, but yes, we are messing with the climate, and doing so at our own risk.

It drives me nuts when I hear some politician refer to a CO2 increase as "fertilizer," or "good for plants."
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 12, 2016 - 08:03am PT
The Republicans in Congress appoint the enemy of the Department to Head it, so they can undermine and defund it.

Anti-science nuts head the science and technology dept,
fossil fuel paid folks head the Climate dept,
Hate the United Nations, get appointed to be the ambassador to the United Nations

Want to sell off the Federal lands, get appointed to head the BLM
Dr. X

Big Wall climber
X- Town
Apr 12, 2016 - 11:08am PT
To think human's CAUSE climate change, is pretty egotistical.

Human's affect the RATE of change only. The glaciers disappearing is only a matter of time, in the big sense.

If you were a giant, that lives for 20,000 years, you would have really cried at glacial loss around 5,000-7,000 years ago.

The climate has been in constant change for ohh.....4-4.5 billion years now. Long before humans.

It's all politics really. Rate of change only impacts how much infrastructure loss has to be addressed, how quickly. Heat won't hurt the planet, or it's denizens. Only the crap we have built, and where we have built it. "Climate Change" as used by politicians (and activists), really means " Economic Change". That's what scares people, deep down.

On a big ball of water, heat and added CO (and its not really added, it used to be in the atmosphere one time, before plants and marine life fixed it in the oil reserves) mean prime conditions for plant growth.

Pollution is something that humans are causing. As well as habitat conversion.

Keep your eyes on the real killers.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Apr 12, 2016 - 11:22am PT
Has anybody done a thermal expansion analysis of the earth's crust, for a few degrees of warming? It would seem that even a teeny rate of thermal expansion, over very long distances, would lead to massive crust displacements, earthquakes and volcanoes.

Interesting observation. Maybe that's the cause of seemingly anomolous earthquakes, rather than the cause du jour, viz. fracking. Perhaps if it induces enough volcanic action, the increased atmospheric particulates will counteract some of the effect of increased carbon releases.

More seriously, as BASE104 said, we really are messing with climate, but, as Dr. X correctly observes, "'Climate Change' as used by politicians (and activists), really means 'Economic Change'. That's what scares people, deep down." I don't think that sort of economic change scares the well-to-do nearly as much as it scares the paycheck-to-paycheck types. Therein lies the real conflict over policy.

John

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