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Handjam Belay
Gym climber
expat from the truth
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Jul 29, 2015 - 02:02pm PT
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At the point the luck outweighs the skill it becomes a "gamble", which can be a type of game.
Not that I believe these guys aren't skilled.
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Gary
Social climber
From A Buick 6
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Jul 29, 2015 - 02:08pm PT
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BASE104, and yet, you stopped.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Jul 29, 2015 - 03:02pm PT
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I stopped for two reasons.
First, I jumped a big 1500 foot antenna with a really fast skydiving main, a Sabre 150. That was stupid. Those things are so fast that you can hit an object without a prayer of turning it around. Still, it was a tower jump, and the wind blows right through those things, blowing you away.
I opened with a 180 off, and before I could think, I was flying through the wires. I managed to steer through them without hitting anything, but I landed on the wrong side of the antenna.
A series of bad judgements led to my almost getting whacked that day. So I was getting lazy.
Second: I had a 2 year old son, that I had to care for and raise back home. That simply became my priority. I even gave up skydiving, which is safe as hell, just to save money. College fund, bought a house, you name it. For the first point in my life, I was responsible in a very real way for someone other than myself.
It wasn't a difficult decision. I missed it now and then, but not much. I watched my buddies go on to have long and safe BASE careers.
The only friend I had who died BASE jumping was the guy two weeks ago. I used to skydive with him, and he was the best.
I don't regret it. I could still have adventures. Just more tame. I started doing these mega hikes in the remotest country that I could find. It led to that one year when I spent the whole summer walking across ANWR and then, after getting a new pair of boots flown in, turning around and walking back via a different route.
THAT was cool. No adrenaline rush. It was just perfect.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Jul 29, 2015 - 03:08pm PT
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The Everest avalanche was predictable.
They just got in the mindset that because it didn't go for the last twenty years, it was safe. They could see the hanging glacier/seracs.
The thing is, the MORE years that go by without an icefall just makes it more likely that it WILL go off.
Kind of like playing blackjack, winning three hands in a row, and instead of taking your lucky winnings and leaving, you continue to put it all down on more bets.
With that avalance, it was simple physics. Sooner or later that would go. The difference is that nowadays, the south col route beneath it is covered with people during season. So more people would be killed. It was only a matter of time.
Just like it was only a matter of time with that Serac on the Triolet.
Geez. Do you think it is safe to build a house under it?
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jul 29, 2015 - 04:43pm PT
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Luck? We were going to camp last Thursday at the base of the Northwest Face of Half Dome. It would be stupid to bivi at the base. 25 years ago though, it didn't bother me at all.
25 years ago you didn't have to buckle your seatbelt or wear a helmet when riding a motorcycle. BASE jumpers need an encapsulation air bag device. Get Elon to develop one. Meanwhile fly safely and pay some attention to probability.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Jul 29, 2015 - 05:27pm PT
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I quit roadracing for the same reason Base104 gave up his passion. I applaud his decision.
Terminal velocity speed is the most powerful sensory addiction one can have whether in the air or on the ground, IMHO.
I gave up my lifelong passion of motorcycle roadracing after a crash but, the real reason I sold all my gear, bikes and equipment needed to race, was that I knew I would get back out there eventually and I needed to stay off the track. There was no way I could afford to replace 20 years of accumulated gear.
The main reason was 4 children under the age of 10 (at the time) that I had a greater responsibility to.
It is sad when I hear about jumpers, racers or climbers dying in their respective sports but my sadness is often for the loved ones they leave behind.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jul 29, 2015 - 05:35pm PT
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Base. thanks for your stories.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jul 29, 2015 - 07:02pm PT
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Pud. I street raced when I was younger. Saw my best friend in two pieces on fire one day. Parked the crotch rocket and never rode it again.. had hundreds of close calls before that. High sided @ 110mph once and it was just blind luck that I was on a sweeping right hander when the engine seized so I was able to slide up the middle and into the other lane that was also empty by blind luck.. at the time I thought that wreck was pretty cool... a little over a year later Jack head on into a car... I always figured that if we grew up near a real track and had the funds to race on a real track that Jack would probobly be alive today instead of dieing violently a few weeks before his 20th birthday. As it happened he saved my life that day. One of us had to go. You can only ride the streets at track speeds for so long before something happens where your skill is insufficient and lady luck runs out...............
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Bad Climber
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2015 - 09:05pm PT
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Thanks, BASE and Tradman. Those are some incredible stores and insights. As a non-jumper, it's so hard to imagine getting bored with jumping El Cap! I know that Rick Sylvester hung up his chute when it "became routine," as he said. Not bad advice. I've dodged some rock fall and missed avalanches, too. The big mountains are dangerous for sure. I'm pretty happy with solid rock climbing these days.
BAd
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jul 29, 2015 - 09:59pm PT
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hey there say, base104.. say, thanks for sharing your story, and also for sharing this... your later decisions and why...
for another life, one that came from your own 'life' , this is sweet,
the most wonderful thing in the world, is to have that young life hug you each day! and not needing the extra burdens, as, there are many in life,
already, that we must take care to use caution with--good decision and good for you both:
(from your first reason, listed) ...A series of bad judgements led to my almost getting whacked that day. So I was getting lazy.
Second: I had a 2 year old son, that I had to care for and raise back home. That simply became my priority. I even gave up skydiving, which is safe as hell, just to save money. College fund, bought a house, you name it. For the first point in my life, I was responsible in a very real way for someone other than myself.
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cleo
Social climber
wherever you go, there you are
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Jul 30, 2015 - 01:31am PT
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I really appreciate the input that BASE104 has added to this thread - really interesting stuff. Thanks.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
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Jul 30, 2015 - 05:59pm PT
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I'm not a BASE jumper but I do paraglide. I've skydived some before I got into paragliding. I've had dreams of BASE jumping, but for me at this moment the risks are more than I want to endure. Paragliding suits me fine. As that very beautiful Italian model who skydives and BASE jumps said, "paragliding too boring." Well, it suits me just fine. Perhaps she should have gotten into paragliding aerobatics, and then she probably wouldn't have said that.
Anyway, it seems that proximity flying is the crack cocaine of wingsuit/BASE jumping. Seems that there is just so much there you can't control. Now in paragliding we love to fly the cliffs and terrain, however our wings are flying fully open already, we are flying at slow speeds, and we can ridge soar or thermal the cliffs to ascend. Sunlight on any ground heats it, and the ground in turn heats the air, the heated air rises. Thermals are constantly coming off the ground and off vertical rock faces. The micrometeorology of cliff flying is subtle. We are usually always crabbing across cliff faces and ridges slightly pointed away so that at any moment we can fly away from the cliff. Not so with proximity wingsuit flying. A thermal, a puff of rising air can lift the outside wing of wingsuit easily it would seem to me and that slight movement will send them into the cliff nearly instantly depending on how close they are.
It would seem to me wingsuit/BASE jumpers have to come to grips with the micrometeorology of proximity flying and realize you have to back away from the terrain. You cannot control micrometeorology and flying that close to cliffs and at those speeds there is no room for error. You can't always control it and you don't know when it will happen.
We have all felt the affects and power of thermals in aircraft. They call it turbulence. There are massive updrafts and downdrafts associated with thermals. Look what that energy can do to a commercial aircraft! Think what strong thermal can do with a wingsuit proximity flyer in the blink of an eye.
When I'm flying in commercial aircrafts and all of a sudden the jet is lifting significantly, I have the habit of shouting out "Turn, turn core that thermal!" My kids just look at me and shake their heads. Lol
Anyway the BASE/wingsuit community is gonna have to figure this all out. Seems to me too many really experienced BASE jumpers are dying now. With the equipment and knowledge base now it seems it shouldn't be happening at this level. The difference is proximity flying. If I were doing it, I'd use the wingsuit to fly away and go for record distance and time aloft flights. Fly away from the mountains and cliffs, like Dean Potter did off the Eiger. I wouldn't do proximity flying. Too many variables that can't be controlled.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jul 31, 2015 - 12:24pm PT
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Beware of accidentally succeeding on a route above your ability. Success tends to breed ambition. The next time, a route of similar difficulty and danger may deliver the hard lesson that a single success at a high-level may represent luck and not skill. Learn to recognize when you lucked out and when you've met the challenge. Without this understanding, such a victory will feed contempt for easy routes on forgiving mountains. Contempt leads to a casual attitude, which results in carelessness and ultimate failure on a grand scale.
Mark Twight
I don't see why this doesn't apply equally to BASE, except that the forces, speeds, and consequences involved are even more so.
The consequences of starting up a wall beyond one's skill mostly means stopping and going back down. But for BASE, there is no going back. It is death.
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Handjam Belay
Gym climber
expat from the truth
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Jul 31, 2015 - 02:16pm PT
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This seems to boil down to...
"BUT I'M FUQN FLYING!!!"
and we aren't.
The first hit is free. the last one costs a lot more.
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Bad Climber
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2015 - 06:32am PT
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Well put, Handjam.
BAd
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Endorphins and adrenaline are the most dangerous drugs.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Klimmer's post pretty much nailed it, but look at modern paragliding. With those acrobatic wings, they now do rolls, loops, you name it. So even with paragliding, there are people pushing it.
I still wish that Hankster or Ammon would chime in. They are both very active jumpers. I'm a fossil.
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The guy above
climber
Across the pond
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Hey Klimmer. Do you honestly think that base jumpers are unaware that micrometereological phenomenoms exist? It's part and parcel of wingsuit proximty flying and taken very seriously.
And although you sseem happy just soaring around in a big ass paraglider that's really not representative of the PG community at large. Go to Chamonix or Lake Annecy any day of the week and you won't see many people flying with the wing level for more than a second or two at a time. And lets not forget the proximity flying branch of paragliding
(Edited a million times to try and clickify link)
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Thanks for all your words, BASE104, you present a good perspective.
I pushed my limits for a while, flipping off of cliffs on skis. It was amazing to expand my perception of what's possible, and I escaped with a paltry twenty broken bones, most of them being more of a hindrance than a game changer.
Fear, and adrenalin, were the most powerful things I've ever felt. Sticking a fifty foot backflip into terrain that you can't f*#k up on changed my life.
I feel like I know a little of what drives these jumpers, though what they are doing is too dangerous for me.
Miles D raping off of a rope in a kayak on the bridge in Auburn, then pulling his chute, was one of the craziest things I'd ever seen, but that guy is super gifted. He had it in the bag, despite the fear he was showing.
Just my thoughts.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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