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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jun 19, 2015 - 06:25pm PT
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Police procedure in New York has no relevance to a crazy in SC.
Trying to draw irrelevant political parallels diminished both the memories of the slain and the evil of the perpetrator.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 19, 2015 - 06:33pm PT
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And the Confederate flag still proudly flies in front of the South Carolina State Legislature.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 19, 2015 - 06:48pm PT
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madbolter, I am curious as to how gun-lessness begets simpering loserness. Are you saying that your gun the man makes? If so, that seems soft.
It isn't hard to understand, if you are an American.
See, Americans recognize that a government is legitimate only insofar as it upholds and protects inalienable rights. Unlike the rest of the world, our founding documents rest upon this fundamental truth.
Thus....
Right to life > Right to self-defense > Right to the means of self defense.
All are inalienable rights, including the right (and responsibility) to resist tyranny when the government forgets the most fundamental reason why it exists. These rights trump all governments, laws, amendments, or other inventions of government.
The "simpering loser" bit comes from the "Save me, protect me, nourish me, take care of me, please oh please" mentality that has consumed this nation.
Those who responsibly carry guns do so because they don't merely proxy off their self-defense onto the government. Responsible gun-carriers take responsibility for themselves and recognize that the government cannot in principle keep them safe, provide for their every need (and whim), nor be there in time when crisis hits.
The old saw is totally true and has been evidenced repeatedly, including in times like this very tragedy we're discussing: When seconds count, the police are mere minutes away.
The contrast is between a nation full of the free and brave who are able and responsible to take care of themselves vs. a nation full of simpering losers (as we pretty much have become now).
I know, I know.... Half this nation can't withdraw their lips from the teat long enough to look up and catch even a glimpse of the freedom that once was. But half of us can see what we're losing at a rapid rate, and we don't want your "security" and "safety" foisted off on us!
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thebravecowboy
climber
liberated libertine
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Jun 19, 2015 - 06:54pm PT
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no relevance to each other
Actually, it does. Same nation, same history, some linkage of consciousness between individuals = relevance between awfulness across our nation.
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thebravecowboy
climber
liberated libertine
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Jun 19, 2015 - 06:55pm PT
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Hey Madbolterif you are an american you should go back to humping Joe McCarthy's leg.
And truly, let us all carry guns responsibly, upon infringement by the big bad brudda^not a simpering loser
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crankster
Trad climber
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Jun 19, 2015 - 06:59pm PT
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TGT, I feel sorry for you.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 19, 2015 - 07:03pm PT
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Hey brave cowboy - congratulations on your succinct reply to one who so proudly represents the kind of sick arrogance that is destroying your nation.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Jun 19, 2015 - 07:08pm PT
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 19, 2015 - 07:23pm PT
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hey werner - who you talking to?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jun 19, 2015 - 07:24pm PT
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Well since most or all of the white supremacists in those pics are dead by now, and few are willing to walk in their shoes, then I guess your point is that we are heading down the right path? We're better off today than then?
He's calling for a national dialog on gun violence. We've got to try to do something instead of going back about our business until the next incident.
If you read my post you would see me encourage the President to enter the gun debate by actually putting up a bill. Actually proposing something. Let the debate begin. But maybe after the bodies of these victims are laid to rest.
But he's a shrewd politician. If he sees a battle he can't win, better to just be rhetorical than to place a bet? I dunno. We'll see what he comes up with. Carry on.
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Norton
Social climber
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Jun 19, 2015 - 08:06pm PT
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um
a President cannot "put up a bill"
he can only sign the legislation that congress passes, basic civics, you knew that
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Jun 19, 2015 - 09:11pm PT
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Yes, everyone should carry a gun to church.
You have an inalienable right to self defend yourself, thats where your inalienable rights stop. It is not an inalienable right to carry a gun.
You seem to quickly to blame this country on a few when the real problem with the country is much deeper. The inability for our financial banks, corporations to deal honestly are just a few that rape our government. Our country is riddled with crooks at all levels and you want to complain about a few that need the teat, or more appropriately, those that honestly need a little help since their jobs went overseas or lost their retirement due to finacial crooks. Yes there a some that are using the system out of laziness but there are far fewer of them than you think there are and we all want to get the ones that don't need it off their rear ends.
To whom ever posted above something about law enforcement just being minutes away, they caught this guy miles away thanks to a citizen on her toes.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Jun 19, 2015 - 09:22pm PT
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That's what my father told me about pointing a weapon at somone.
Small world.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 19, 2015 - 09:32pm PT
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suprema and johnboy: I think between you guys, you've summed up the whole sad nightmare of gun culture.
P.S.: As far as someone not taking this piece of white trash down while he was reloading, it's a sad facet of human nature that people often freeze up in life threatening situations.
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thebravecowboy
climber
liberated libertine
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Jun 19, 2015 - 09:40pm PT
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no human being is trash.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 19, 2015 - 10:35pm PT
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It is not an inalienable right to carry a gun.
It IS an inalienable right to carry the reasonable means to adequately respond to any individual threat one is going to encounter. If you don't agree with that statement, then you don't agree with the right to self-defense, so you don't agree with the right to life.
As long as bad guys threaten individuals with guns, individuals have an inalienable right to carry guns to respond to such threats. Eliminate the gun threat entirely (if you possibly can; it's not been done anywhere!), and you thereby reduce the "arms" one has a right to carry to those weapons that are then the threats wielded against individuals.
The very fact that there are upwards of 300 million guns and that millions and millions of responsible Americans carry them around daily gives the lie to your worry about continual shoot-outs in stores, malls, etc. In actual fact, there are very, very, VERY few irresponsible incidents in public considering the number of gun-carriers, a much better ratio than irresponsible driving incidents to drivers.
The worry is not the rank and file American with a gun. The worry is the nutjob and/or regular criminal with a gun. Solve THAT problem, and then you'll get somewhere with your "anti-gun for Americans" perspective. And you won't solve THAT problem by making (any sort of) guns illegal. The feds have offered no evidence that they can eliminate or even substantially reduce a black market!
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jun 19, 2015 - 11:21pm PT
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a President cannot "put up a bill"
Surely you gest. Presidents put up bills all the time. Yes they do it through legislative channels. It's called leading.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jun 20, 2015 - 12:13am PT
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What a dumb comment, Wendell.
He was resisting because he was in a choke hold.
I hate to get drawn further into this crossfire, but one thing always bothered me about that explanation, and I have yet to hear a coherent explanation. How could someone in a strangling choke hold say "I can't breathe?"
John
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 20, 2015 - 07:16am PT
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The kid sits for an hour in the back checking out the scene.
Then decides its time, ... even though he had second thoughts that these people are too nice but starts his killing anyways.
Then has to reload the gun 5 times.
Reload 5 times!!!
While reloading the gun the victims are just sitting/standing there waiting for him to reload to shoot them????
How does this work ...... ?????
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