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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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I live in Vermont. We have almost no gun laws. Any non felon of legal age can buy whatever guns they want and carry them concealed or in the open almost anywhere. Pretty much no one bothers to open carry unless actually hunting. Very few bother to conceald carry. Most common is a gun in the vehicle. I have hitch hiked with a rifle durring hunting season in the dark in a snowstorm and got a ride all the way home. We have about 10-12 homicides a year in the whole state. We do have some meathead cops but mostly the real bad ones yell at people and belittle them. They hardly ever shoot people.
I feel the reason this all plays out this way is that for the most part vermonters are not complete as#@&%es. certainly not the kind of as#@&%es that shoot each other over parking places. Even the cops who are as#@&%es are not as big of as#@&%es as they would be if they dealt with bigger and more as#@&%es at work every day.
If you live in a city wrere there are 90 shootings 30 of wich result in death per month you live with a whole lot of complete as#@&%es. If you are a cop and you work in that city some of that assholitiss is certainly going to rub off on you.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jun 3, 2015 - 06:45am PT
Meanwhile the Nation of Iceland is in mourning because a cop just killed someone for the first time in their history.
We don't have that issue. It's been about 100 a month this year so far.
Only 8 for June, but it's early and the reporting takes a while...
http://www.killedbypolice.net
The database is kept by private citizens. Law enforcement says they don't have a means to keep track, so the citizens are helping them out.
The latest was Ronald Neal, who was killed apparently because he wouldn't come out of his home. Probably afraid of getting killed.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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I realize you have stated in the past that you fear the Police Call it the self preservation instinct. Are Grizzly's usually any threat to people? Do you fear a grizzly when you're up close and personal? They're notoriously unpredictable.
I'm Very Da**ed Careful when I'm within 50 yards of one. Ditto a cop. It's an abundance of caution....with very good reason.
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Gorgeous George
Trad climber
Los Angeles, California
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Michael Brown's problem was not that he weighed 400 pounds, its that selling cigarettes as singles is a capital offense according to the local cops. Let's not forget, he protested being arrested, but had not assaulted anyone, and began to resist when the officers piled on him and one applied a lethal chokehold.
The law is clear, if police act overly aggressive or provocative, the subject has the right to minimally resist. I challenge anyone to tell me what specific action he took that required a lethal chokehold to give him a ticket for selling cigarettes.
This police behavior would never go over in a white neighborhood. That's what people are protesting. They see it in black and white on video, and the DA claims he doesn't have enough to prosecute, even for a lesser crime such as manslaughter or assault. For Christ's sake, the man was protesting he could not breathe and they applied more pressure.
The law is also clear on another point, no one ever said "common sense" should be ignored by cops.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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the DA claims he doesn't have enough to prosecute
Enough what, integrity?
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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GG
you're confusing Michael Brown, Ferguson MO with Eric Garner, NYC
After being stopped by the cop in his patrol car, Michael Brown in fact reached into the cop's car and tried to steal his gun. Cop shot him in the hand and MB took off running. MB was not armed. Cop pursued. MB turned to face cop. He may have been attempting to surrender. Exactly what happened at that point is still in dispute except that MB took several bullets and died in the street. Midday. In a residential neighborhood near his own residence.
He was already known to the police. They could have come in force to arrest him any time they chose.
Eric Garner was choked on the NYC sidewalk for resisting arrest while selling cigarettes. He was unarmed.
The outcome was grossly disproportionate to the offense. And the chokehold had been forbidden by NYC police rules.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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This police behavior would never go over in a white neighborhood. A fallacy. Read the Guardian list. You don't have to go far to find two shot in the San Jose area in a mixed middle class neighborhood (one armed with a knife, one with a gun). I know the neighborhood well, a friend lives there. On May 20 a college student in Long Beach near campus, another "white" neighborhood. Completely unarmed.
In about 2009 an unarmed white guy killed at a Starbucks in the "white" area of Campbell, CA.
Another locale I know well.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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If I'm unarmed, encounter a police officer, and obey the officer's commands, how likely am I to be subject to violence from the officer(s), and how does that likelihood change based on my race or ethnicity, my gender, my age, the clothing I'm wearing, and the neighborhood in which the encounter takes place? How do those likelihoods change if I fail to obey the officer's command(s)?
I don't know that, but I do know that it is the police who are opposed to compiling any data on the issue. "It's too hard". Logic tells me that there is a reason why this is so.
I also don't know how the equation changes, above, if you happen to be drunk, nave difficulty understanding commands, or even performing them.
the problem for the cops is that they don't know the history, they only know a person is acting "crazy", or even violent.
I remember when I was an ER doc in Delano, a white guy brought in by the cops....it basically took 10 of them lying on top of him to subdue him.
He was brought to the ER to "dry out", and once he was with it again, we untied him and he walked out. No charges. I can't imagine that outcome if he'd been black or latino.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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... killed by police in the USA
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Just read the cops are trying to suppress information on the biker gang shootout in texas. My hunch has been all allong that most of the 9 fatalitys will be found to have been the result of police fire. your average thug probobly dosen't shoot that straight with a handgun. cops with AR15's on the other hand would rack up a quick score in a target rich enviornment.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Your average cop hardly shoots straight either.... I've seen the horror shows at the range.
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Gary
Social climber
From A Buick 6
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"Dillon Taylor had been wanted on a $25,000 bench warrant “for a probation violation in connection with felony robbery and obstructing justice convictions,” according to the Tribune."
Sounds like a typical Republican congressional candidate, but they don't receive summary execution.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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It is an interesting thought experiment to see if your opinion would change if you were put into a room with someone like the late Michael Brown who was intent on doing you harm.
I don't think a typical person would survive very long against a violent, 400 pound drug-fueled maniac.
A drug-fueled maniac meaning some college bound kid high on pot? Oh now I get it you mean a black guy. Another interesting thought experiment is to think of that person as your child, but that's probably easier for us to do when our child is black.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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A drug-fueled maniac meaning some college bound kid high on pot? Oh now I get it you mean a black guy. Another interesting thought experiment is to think of that person as your child, but that's probably easier for us to do when our child is black.
I just tried your thought experiment: I'm imagining I have a child who's high, just strong-arm robbed a store (and we all know what he was after), attacked a cop after failing to obey clearly lawful and appropriate commands, tried to take the gun during that attack, failed, tried to flee, failed, then bull rushed the cop.
The only I way I see that one ending is how it in fact did end, or an alternate scenario where Brown did get the cops gun or succeeded in his second attack. (I know HT thinks the cop should have asked Brown if he'd like to call a time out or something, return to his home, and the cops would stop by sometime later to discuss the matter. Doesn't seem realistic to me.)
And maybe it's a failure of my power of imagination, but I'm not seeing the complexion of the protagonist in our thought experiment as being particularly salient.
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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white Merika is fine with cops thinning out the mostly not white population. they feel safer.
the 1% will need the cops to control the masses when they need water and oil.
we will be easier to control because we are desensitized and the 'law' system is bought out.
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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the 'few bad apples' argument died with the proliferation of the smart phone.
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Gary
Social climber
From A Buick 6
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bookworm, do you ever read the articles you link, or do you just have a serious reading comprehension problem?
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