An honest question.....How long do you guys give Hondo?

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donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Mar 20, 2015 - 12:29pm PT

Soloing rock has been around for the entirety that humans have walked the planet. The first 5.10 climbs in America were likey done by barefoot Anasazi sans rope. We have all soloed at some point even if it was just third class. You can die on third class terrain just as surely as you can on Moonlight Buttress.

Control is obviously the key in this zero sum game. One false move, one broken hold and it's over. Many feel they have the necessary control on third class, only Alex has felt that way about the NW Face of Half Dome, Moonlight Buttress and Sendero Luminoso.

Sponsorship is fairly new in the climbing game and it is a limited resource for those seeking it. As climbers improve and multiply the qualifications for obtaining sponsorship become more and more rarefied. Putting up a few new routes was once satisfactory, now much more is needed to impress those doling out sponsorship money.

This all started in Europe and is now alive and well here. Speed records, spectacular enchainments, solo alpine routes in winter, solo climbs of routes that a decade or so ago couldn't be done WITH ropes. It's a spiral spinning ever faster with no end in sight.
Climbers have always been competitive, with themselves and others. Now there is also competition for a pot of money that other sports would find laughable.

One hopes that the drive to get into the spotlight doesn't expand the parameters of control a climber feels to the realm of imaginary control.

Alex didn't do his groundbreaking solos to gain the spotlight but gain it he has and not just in the climbing community but in the world at large.

Alex is a once in a generation phenom and it would be presumptuous for anyone to tell him how to go about his craft. We can just watch and admire and send our best wishes.
Others, who want to emulate him should think long and hard about both their abilities and, most importantly, their motives.

jstan

climber

Mar 20, 2015 - 12:32pm PT

Freedom is a whore. Who of us does not dream of running down the trail arms waving, eyes crossed, tongue extended, screaming ?My dream. My dream."? Then a hold pulls off and you are in a bed.

We go into Iraq and now we have ISIS. America has lost the ability to go all squinty=eyed while calculating what our consequences might be, and just how the Dream may turn into a Nightmare.

In America that word has gone missing. Unless you make a habit of thinking for yourself.

leopop

climber

Mar 20, 2015 - 12:47pm PT

Alex is a once in a generation phenom and it would be presumptuous for anyone to tell him how to go about his craft. We can just watch and admire and send our best wishes.
Others, who want to emulate him should think long and hard about both their abilities and, most importantly, their motives.

Nicely put Donini.

scheumee

Mountain climber

Eternia

Mar 20, 2015 - 12:49pm PT

I generally avoid forums unless the topic is about tea however this question and the comments are so intriguing that I had to be a participant in the philosophical adventures of brotherbbock.

Many of you have pointed out that you feel this question is absurd and it’s of bad taste. Really questions like these help us ponder our own adventures and are definitely things we discuss when outdoors amongst friends. I mean who hasn’t asked themselves this very question.
To leopop’s point, an athlete can be an elite climber with precise well calculated movements but if the elements are unforgiving in any way you will die if you don’t have a way to help correct for unforeseen challenges. Andy Lewis and his clan are a perfect example of this, unfortunately losing a few good friends this year by pushing that limit and even though they were well qualified something unforeseen happened. I mean I stand in awe every time I see Mr Honnold successfully complete another crazy climb, but I’m also betting with myself (and in a “how long do you give hondo” betting pool) on when that day will come when he doesn’t make it. Unfortunately before that happens there will be more of his unqualified followers that get hurt or even die.

But you know, he should totally keep doing what makes him happy. I just heard a podcast about a blind guy that click at things to use echo location. I mean really? Who would have let their kid do this, but his mom never told him no and now he rock climbs while blind and has a blast. Other people said don’t do it but he did anyway and now has some form of echo location to mountain bike and do other amazing things. So I sit here undecided.

What is awesome is brotherbbock only asked the question of how long we give Hondo, which is more of a “if a tree falls in the forest” type of question and should be a pretty quick answer, however we all look at the moral responsibility of the question or "Hondo’s" actions instead of just saying brotherbbock you’re awesome.

I mean other than your incorrect use of the word “you’re” in your posts this was quite amazing and obviously inspiring for many.

brotherbbock

Trad climber

Alta Loma, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 20, 2015 - 12:54pm PT

I mean other than your incorrect use of the word “you’re” in your posts this was quite amazing and obviously inspiring for many.

hahahahah

clinker

Trad climber

Santa Cruz, California

Mar 20, 2015 - 01:44pm PT

Soloing enables you to hear the voices clearly.

HighTraverse

Trad climber

Bay Area

Mar 20, 2015 - 03:11pm PT

you must hear your inner voice clearly

Who here would shut down Grand Prix motorcycle racing or the Isle of Man TT??
The Isle of Man TT, by percent of career fatalities, is many times more dangerous than high level rock soloing. We allow, even approve, even cheer on those very very few who excel at truly dangerous sports. Most highly dangerous sports even give prize money. Isle of Man TT...not so much. Grand Prix auto racing drivers are highly paid and known around the world. Rock climbing soloists.....nil.

So Clif Bar dropped Alex. How many sponsors have dropped Grand Prix drivers/riders for fear of them dying with the sponsor's logo splashed over every piece of their kit?
Those sponsors only drop out when their balance sheet requires it.

How long do I give Hondo? The implied assumption is offensive.
He's doing what he loves to do. What he is driven to do. What he excels at. Likely at a higher level than anyone in the sport right now.
Sure, lots of young (and don't kid ourselves, older) climbers see Alex as an inspiration. It's up to each of us to know our unique inner voice.
Some days the voice says "perhaps not today" some days it's less a voice than a song of the spheres. A song of harmony between cognitive self and the human spirit. For most of us it is seldom compelling. Hopefully for all of us we occasionally join the song of harmony and flow with it. Otherwise we are dead inside.

Only time will tell when Alex's song will wane. How will it change as his body becomes less capable? That might yet be a long time away.

hobo_dan

Social climber

Minnesota

Mar 20, 2015 - 03:55pm PT

This is an extremely inappropriate question IMO. How presumptuous and condescending can you be? As if this persons choices give you the right to treat their life as a conversation piece.

Gorgeous George

Trad climber

Los Angeles, California

Mar 20, 2015 - 04:07pm PT

I remember a video in which Croft discusses soloing and remarks that if you do it, you should do it for yourself and not to impress others.

My concern is for the impressionable young climbers that want to emulate Honnold to make a name for themselves, we climbers are not immune to climbing for all the wrong reasons.

I just hope this discussion does not offend the "rock climbing Gods."

leopop

climber

Mar 20, 2015 - 04:35pm PT

George, Peter Croft is a great example of a climber who solos without allowing the media to exploit his talents. We all know he does it, but knowledge is not enough to excite your neighborhood's bouldering youth team to want to solo. A movie with Alex Honnold soloing, and some hipster music playing in the background... well, that's a recipe for a different outcome.

DMT, I think it has to do with the audience. Soloing appeals to a younger group, who are more likely to underestimate their abilities and feel a bit more invincible. Also, soloing requires no extra gear and is more accessible. Also, this video is not a great example. The video itself focuses on the dangers of alpinism and the tone is not one of stoke and psyche. Honnold's movies do quite the opposite, at least in my opinion.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Mar 20, 2015 - 04:47pm PT

Good point about alpinisim DMT....I personally have had a number of close calls. The point is there is no standard for any aspect of climbing. Climbing is for anarchists and loners who set their own personal standards without much regard to what others think.

mouse from merced

Trad climber

The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.

Mar 20, 2015 - 04:57pm PT

So I think he is very smart and has things figured out. I honestly think risks he takes are smaller than risks some gumbies take on munginella.
--Vitally

The nomenclature of this thread's title threw me and this is the first I've looked at it.

Alex is a 4.6 HS grad. He's plenty smart. He's got you all in a box and is playing with you like a chimp with a stick.

He rocks.

Everyone else just talks;

And I used to drink wine from a box,

unlike Phylp, though she's probably done it.

But I stopped drinkin'

Mainly cuz I been thinkin'

Too much about Death--

both Blind Joe and the man from S.I.C.K.L.E.

This is not a pleasant topic,
and one which is basically useless,
so it's a natural for the Taco.

Have at...

nah000

climber

no/w/here

Mar 20, 2015 - 07:16pm PT

i find these types of judgemental discussions by [generally] roped climbers regarding rock climbing free soloists to be a bit like a group of promiscuous unpaid whores judgementally discussing paid prostitutes.

anybody who ropes up and climbs does something just as absurd as alex et al... any discussion of the additive risks must also consider the fact that multiples of us will this year die because we forgot to tie a figure 8 properly or check that our rap lines made it to the ground and etc. but yet we don't have these discussions about sharma...

at the end of the day the only one who has some sense of how close to the line he's pushing it and how much objective risk there is in the game he plays is alex.

the rest of us are just projecting and guessing...

while i have to admit I've waffled due to the publicness of alex's acts, when posed and discussed by climbers I find the original question both naive and repugnant...

alpinists on the other hand... nutters the lot of 'em. :)

drljefe

climber

El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson

Mar 20, 2015 - 07:19pm PT

some hipster music playing in the background...

???

lol

brotherbbock

Trad climber

Alta Loma, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 20, 2015 - 08:18pm PT

Nah,

Very nice use of the word repugnant.

I agree with much of what you are saying.

Perhaps the title off the thread is a bit trollish....but there is some valid discussion to be had. Sometimes talking about the elephant in the room is unpleasant.

No ill harm or wishes towards anyone. The whole internet is one big troll.

Peter Haan

Trad climber

Santa Cruz, CA

Mar 20, 2015 - 08:31pm PT

Frankly.......and if you want to know from someone who began this game over fifty years ago, I expect Alex to be around for one hell of a long time too. He and others will probably scatter my ashes.

That is how I feel about AH and his trajectory. He will not solo high end forever. He might not even be climbing for much longer. He might get the bug to take up other critical projects. But right now he is young, at his peak, and expressing it. He is not even thirty for christ's sake and has a non-profit, is well-spoken and writes really well, has a moral imperative. He will know when to do what more than most anybody here.

The big problem is that most don't understand him and where he comes from, and from whence come such conjectures---doing giant routes without equipment---most forgetting the whole time that that is how all of climbing began! Most don't even know where climbing has come from. Its history is merely a doormat for most. That it extends from Seventeenth Century theories is not grasped in the slightest. Climbing for most just "is" and you merely buy equipment for it.

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber

Out Of Bed

Mar 20, 2015 - 08:35pm PT

Thank. You P Haan,
I was so looking for any one to admit to having climbed without a rope. Many have and still do.
I was thinking of the Gunks and JTree, the two places are completely
different. Rock types, opposites as to lay of the land the ability to find solitude,
Both places have strong histories of high end cordless climbing. My knowledge of the 3rd class climbing in Josh is thin, I have memories and a prized negative to develop and scan of Scott Cosgrove solo on the ski tracks, climbing cordless and cleaning up Gettin' booty , stuck gear.

In the Gunks I was in the mix a bit, the Gunks is made to solo,the word third class was applied, but dead vertical climbing, passing square cut over hangs at every grade made the visiting western climbers bauk. The tricks we learned were the old school rules extended from the leader never falls and three points of contact to speed is safety and down climbing is not an option. The down climbing part took a hit, and we started to practice roped down climbing. Many of us followed 'wire it first' by repetition and reduction of pro. From, say, seven pieces to fewer and eventually a roped but gear less climb. The game was heady one and there are great stories of climbers having gotten to some bomber hold and begging for a rope.
The very best at this game raised and raised the standards to the highest levels, climbing cordless on .12s &13s ! The practice continues today and very stout climbs have very thin gear and death run outs, passing easier ground.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Mar 20, 2015 - 09:45pm PT

People can vicariously pontificate all they want about the risks and advisability of soloing. But then there's how Reardon died which kind of renders moot all discussion of how dangerous soloing is and the odds of dying doing it. If you need to solo then solo and get it out of your system now because tomorrow you could be hit by a meteor or gored by a Narwhal.