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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Rest uneasy, Unbeliever, My Invisible Sock M-nkey will have the last laugh.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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New war, new friends. Same as it ever was.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Crusades = religion
Caliphates = religion
Inquisitions = religion
Rape of Mexico = religion
Cults = religion
Resistance to science = religion
Shia/ Sunni hate = religion
Hindu/Muslim hate = religion
Arab/Jew hate = religion
ISIS = religion
Hamas = religion
Hezbollah = religion
Al Shabab = religion
Boko Haram = religion
What a great thing religion is. Please sir, may I have another?
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Who is ISIS?
The Iraq faction is mostly the Iraqi Army that Bush liberated,
meaning threw out onto the street.
and quickly became insurgents fighting against the American Occupying force
Bush could have had a plan going into Iraq, but he forgo that for "Shock en Awe"
The Neo-Con dream, "lets' destroy this country and then impose our Libertarian Gov. ideology here in this fresh new vacuum we just created."
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Any kind of unchecked group-think is the danger....
to add to those listed above:
Nationalism = Cult thinking
I've got a good friend who's an Army Ranger and is headed back to the ME for the fourth time. I have to bite my tongue so hard when he starts spouting off about "killing those savages".... He's not a dumb guy either but completely falls for whatever propaganda is presented that paints all of them over there as potential threats.
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Who is ISIS?
The current estimate, is that ISIS has about 30,000 "foreign fighters". That's 30,000 potential terrorists that voluntarily assigned themselves the status of terrorist and deported themselves. Even paid their own transportation. In the end, ISIS, may be one of the best things to ever happen.
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dirtbag
climber
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Yes, if only combat troops remained another 10 years, everything would be hunky dory. Lol.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Ron said Bush WARNED US!! Tee hee, what a friggin' statesman that dude was eh?
"The dems out voted him." He SIGNED the withdrawal order Ron.
He also said "Bring 'em on."
He also said nucular......
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Yes, Bush warned us about leaving Iraq to soon
Then signed the agreement with Iraq to remove all the troops in 2011
Did you forget that part ron?
Who cares what Bush said, it's all about what he did....
Bush removed the troops that allowed ISIS to develop, Not Obama
Bush is 100% responsible for the formation of ISIS
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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I find the reference to group think ironically relevant to this thread. So few in the U.S. - and on Super Topo - have any real knowledge of the complexities of middle eastern events, so we end up parroting those we already tend to believe.
John
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dirtbag
climber
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I know that many younger Iranians dream of the USA invading them.
I.e., a couple of Ron's duck hunting/drinking buddies told him that.
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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^^^WTF^^^ <- Ron's post
From what I read in this thread and how little I know, my money is on John's post above. I do a fair bit of reading on the subject and have had interesting conversations with friends and townfolk alike recently. It seems to be a common topic these days. The idea that we think we know what is right over there via our eyes,thoughts,culture,ego and what we are fed is quite telling of our modern culture of knowing.
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Right now, Iran is taking the war to ISIS and in Sunni territory. Things haven't gone particularly well for them, dozens of their soldiers have been executed by ISIS on video. To put that in perspective, imagine the outrage here, were it our soldiers.
Israel, is far down the list of Iranian problems. NetanYahoos speech was a cynical marker to milk Congress for more money. He gets a promise of money, he gets re-elected.
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Because the Sunni threat, is far more serious than anything posed by Israel. Also, a major Shia Shrine is in that Province.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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WHY???
Because they border IRAQ, all that land to the East of Iraq is IRAN.
That's Why?
If you didn't know that, maybe you just leave this discussion so you don't make more of a fool of yourself
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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serious question: WHY on earth would Iran involve itself there now? Serious answer: because we, quite conveniently for them, made Iraq an Iranian puppet state. By getting rid of Saddam we made one of their old enemies an ally, now they are fighting to defend that ally.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Now you got it, Ron. A group of Saudis fly airliners into the WTC, so we invade Iraq. Perfectly clear.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Yes because a perfect nuke vs a mediocre nuke is very important. It would be so embarrassing to wipe out only part of Tel Aviv.
I am curious though why would devout muslims risk radiating Jerusalem?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Good article jonnyrig.
Whatever the truth and the outcome 30-50 years down the road, that dude in Ron's Belgium video was creepy.
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