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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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reminder that in the midst of this project, some dude, without NPR/New York Times/facebook posts, free-soloed Cerro Torre's most classic line in a storm, and is back on the ground having a beer
Not saying the Dawn Wall project isn't a big deal; not deriding the climbers' maintaining a social media presence; just find it strange what the masses find more interesting/laudable
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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It's kind of funny watching all the news coverage they call it the biggest piece of granite in the world they call it the steepest rock in the world they call it everything but what it is, the hardest rock climb in the world and an explanation of why.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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I saw a headline today on yahoo of a CBS story calling it the most dangerous climb in the world. Yuuuk.. Hardest free climb in the world hell yea! not even remotely close to most dangerous....
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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mike m wrote: "... they collect everything but what it is, the hardest rock climb in the world..."
that's the thing, it's not even necessarily the "hardest rock climb in the world".
assuming they succeed what it will be is "the hardest ground-supported and red-pointed, big wall free climb, as judged solely by amount and technical rating of the free climbing difficulty." [try explaining that to non-climbers]
which is why it gets dumbed down. [not using ropes!, extreme hiking!, hardest rock climb!...]
trying to explain all of the specialized branches of the contemporary climbing tree to a non-climber, hell even to most climbers, would take a book...
because if we're going to talk about "hardest rock climb" we need to consider things like caldwell and honnold's fitz traverse, cordes and wharton on trango, [yeah i get these had a bit of snow and ice, but when you take only one axe as in the first case or use a "kiddy axe" as they called it and a good 90% had to have been rock as in the second, I'm fine with calling them "rock climbs"] and even the latest 15c or wherever we're at, at this point..
which is the thing about this climb. yes, i'm as sucked in as anyone: it's super proud to project anything for 5 years. and there is no question that they are progressing a certain branch of the climbing family tree.
but this specific branch of exploration is one that has come with huge compromises to style.
if these guys had a cart with two bicycle wheels, we would have come completely full circle.
because, while what follows comes in some cases from reading between lines [and it's possible i may therefore be wrong about a couple of the details], there is a lot of this technical "advancement" that is coming purely at the price of stylistic "retreat":
 supplies are ferried either by others or by rope from the ground [no need to be self-contained or have to worry about whether you have enough food or water, etc.]
all pitches have been, where natural pro is not possible, pre-bolted [i'm assuming some at least were done on rap] so no need to worry about where and if there is pro
the difficult pitches have natural pro pre-placed so no need to worry whether you can fiddle the natural pro in while on lead
the most difficult pitches have been worked, including with regard to some of the most extreme moves, plotted out and specifically trained for off the rock, so no need to worry about whether there are holds or a path to progress
the most difficult pitches are pre-scoped with all holds ticked with chalk so no need to worry if you can even find the holds...
the point: just because a climb is done in the valley by two of the most sponsored climbers in the world, all while being tweeted, photographed and videoed, doesn't mean it is not without its significant compromises.
what these guys are doing is f*#king unbelievable and should definitely have a spotlight shone on it. and we should expect the outside world to reduce it to platitudes and simplifications.
otoh, as climbers, i'd hope, and as a few such as ms55401 hint at, this climb is kept in perspective.
that said, i'm proud to say i have been and will continue to check facebook pages and tom's updates daily.
and i'll yell out a whoop of heart felt congratulations from afar, if they succeed. [hell, at this point even if they don't]
but let's call a spade a spade.
and so let's also stop being such a bunch of old farts that we think this is going to take 20 or 30 years to repeat.
i'll place good money that this is repeated [in better style] within five to ten years.
kids in the current avant garde are on sighting 14c.
if these guys succeed, the most difficult part of this climb will have already been done for anybody that follows.
because, what is f*#king unbelievable is that these guys found a free climbable path up this wall.
and so assuming they are able to prove that it is possible, the press that this route has received will have given it the biggest bulls eye on the planet.
what up and comer isn't going to put a big ole poster on his wall and dream of making his mark by being the second?
sorry for the rant m.fers....
i couldn't help myself once i got started... hahahaha.
tl;dr: to call what caldwell and jorgeson are doing, "climbing", pushes to the breaking point the definition of the word.
as with all contemporary high end red pointing a more complete and apt descriptor is rope protected bouldering.
and so in this specific case, c + j are the progenitors of a new branch of the climbing family tree:
ground supported and rope protected big wall bouldering.
nttiawwt.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
Nov 20, 2014 - 02:08pm PT
Has nobody bagged on "guaranteed outcome climbing" yet?
Yup, called it, a month and a half early.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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This really is a mind-boggling achievement already. I've done both the New Dawn and Mescalito in the traditional way in the mid-late 1970s. They were hard enough as aid routes if you ask me (nobody has). I almost cut the rope I was jumaring on following the Molar Traverse. Second-closest time I ever got to cratering.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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I find their ascent really f*#king inspiring. Not even the ascent itself, but the amount of work they put into it. Year after year of hard f*#king work. Hell with their style, tick marks, individual move ratings and this whole circus that comes along with it. What ultimately matters is that those guys were excited about it for a long time and they are hopefully having a blast up there. Just like the guy that soloed Cerro Torre in a storm. What matters is the personal experience, like in that new song, it is all about that dash between the numbers. I am happy those two are doing something they find worthy of so much energy, and I REALLY want to see both of them succeed. Never met them, but they seem to be very likeable characters.
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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^^^^
couldn't agree more.
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wannabeen
climber
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⬆⬆⬆and, they would still be up there, doing the same thing without all this media circus!!
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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They were.. for years.
Perfectly said Vitally!
I like what NAH had to say also.
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this just in
climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
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These are from 2011, taken from the base. It was cool to watch then and very cool to follow now. I've had projects, but never anything near the commitment and work they've put into this. Really hope they succeed this push.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Sure, there are harder pitches in the world. However when you add up the difficulty of each pitch on this route you do have a fairly good case for it being the hardest ROUTE in the world.
It is hard to compare, though. Ondra and Sharma can climb harder sport pitches, but I doubt either one would even try this route. They are pure sport climbers. This is definitely a trad climb. They didn't add any bolts to Mescalito or WOEML and are using trad gear.
Are we finally approaching the limits of what the human body can do? I remember when people who were doing hard 5.12 and 5.13 started tearing up the tendons in their fingers. I thought that it must be getting close to what the body could handle. Wrong. Hard 5.15 is now getting done, without injury.
Does anyone remember when Bachar blew out his elbows? Those Bachar ladders were definitely tough on the elbows.
This route is challenging the toughness of human skin, though. No doubt about that. I'm stoked for them. I don't see how you could not be.
Like others, I've aided a lot of those pitches, and the notion that they would EVER go free didn't even enter my mind.
I think that it was KJ who was talking about a difficult undercling on one of the lower pitches. He called it "lifting the car off of the baby" because you had to pull super hard.
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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I've been here in the Valley for a few days enjoying the show. It's better in person and it makes the naysayers ( nahoo!) sound like wankers. It's no circus yet. Last night there were only about 6 people watching Tommy send.
( btw there are 3 cameramen living up there. Tommy is undoubtedly the rigger and leader. They aren't relying on ground support except to deal with cameras, cameramen and poo. As for difficulty, considering Kevin is at his limit, I'm guessing that the difficulty will prove out. As for gear, I understand that they are whipping on beaks and 000 cams.
P.s. Nahoo is now nah-spew.
P.s.s. The style of ascent gives Scotty Burke big ups for his success on free climbing the Nose.
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WBraun
climber
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Scotty Burk ???? ^^^^
Pppfffftttttt ... he didn't do sh!t, except fuk over a lot of people .....
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this just in
climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
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Style will always be an issue with a lot of climbers. To me I could give a sh#t. The whole, "Anyone could do that with all that rehearsal" saying is funny to me. If I rehearsed my whole life I probably still couldn't get up even the 12's on that route.
I respect your opinion nah and so many share it, but to me I can't comment on their style cause I'm nowhere near the level of climbers that they are.
Edit: oh sh#t I might have just commented on their style.
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WBraun
climber
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Way back in the late 70's Kauk told me this type of style will come into play in the future to free climb walls like this.
He visualized it back then.
A big wall like this will become a giant boulder problem.
One problem stacked upon another and continues until the summit is reached ......
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slabbo
Trad climber
colo south
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I think it was Jim Erickson who said " the top climbs are done in dubious style" I hardly call this dubious style, but who knows ?
I read recently that only 4 people have ever climbed 15B..and for me, a route like this, a couple letters "lower" is just amazing
Go boys !!
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WBraun
climber
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The climbing world is too fixated in their stupid numbers.
When you actually look at what is being done then it's much clearer and understandable.
Always attaching these stupid numbers to everything is so meaningless ....
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