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this just in
climber
north fork
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Nov 19, 2014 - 09:34am PT
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I get where kev is coming from in the first part of his post Glad you edited and I agree. Obviously Kev was being intentional with his slippery slope.
As far as my "beautiful children" argument, I hope you never allow them on the internet, to watch television, read a newspaper, or go out in society, cause their purity will be lost. Live and learn, don't hide and censor.
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John M
climber
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Nov 19, 2014 - 09:36am PT
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Oh come on Kev.. aren't you doing the same thing?
You are saying… If you don't like what I am doing.. too bad. Its my right.
You expect him to be tolerant, but how tolerant are you?
I would like to see route names that aren't sexist, crass or sound like they were made up by a bunch of 3rd grade boys.
What is the difference between Savage suggesting no crass sexist names for routes and some one suggesting that a book shouldn't be in a library?
A book can be put in the adult section so as to limit childrens exposure to it. The name of a route can't be.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Nov 19, 2014 - 09:53am PT
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John, we're talking about route names for christ sake not adult videos. Isn't it the parents job to deal with what EACH PARENT chooses is okay and not okay? Until a law is broken it's fine. If you don't like the names then change the laws about what we can and can't write, say, think, etc.
Also, I'm not advocating for or against any route names. People can name the sh#t they put up whatever they want. Like I said mine usually come from the story of the FA, and often much agonizing and debate occurs before a name is settled on. But really advocating censorship "for the wives and children" or claiming "sexual harassment"? I find this laughable and very weak sauce.
I hope Savage doesn't go to the eastside very often: I had a buddy that was on "Show your Tits" (at ORG I think) and these chicks were yelling up to him "What route are you on?" he replied with the route name. After a couple of iterations they took off. Imagine their laughter later when they looked in the guide book and found out the name of the route.
I'm not offended by a penis shaped rock being called "cock rock" or another one being named "The unmentionable". All the PC crap on the taco is growing very very tiresome.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 19, 2014 - 10:03am PT
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"Live and learn, don't hide and censor."
Did Spider suggest that a bunch of route names should be changed?
I didn't get that...more like, we can do better as a climbing community than some of the really over-the-line 'nomenclature' that is out there.
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John M
climber
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Nov 19, 2014 - 10:13am PT
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PC crap… got it.
Kev.. is there a point where you would protest a name? Can you imagine a name where even you would go.." hey man.. you should change that name"? If so, then how is that different then what spider is doing?
Societies have censorship.. You don't have a blanket right to use obscenities everywhere that you want to. If you put up a great big sign on your property that uses obscenities, then your town or county will probably make you take it down. And I say good for them. I wouldn't want to live next to such a sign. I don't need a law to tell me if something is good or not. Nor do I want one when it comes to names of routes. I just wish that some people wouldn't equate freedom to do something as some indication of how manly they are. Thats what 3rd grade boys do. Once a route is created, it becomes public domain. Free speech is not fully protected in the public domain.
And excusing that kind of behavior simply because its too hard to protect a child from everything is weak.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Nov 19, 2014 - 10:15am PT
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Apogee,
I just don't see how everyone can be happy all the time. I do find some of the crass names kinda funny, but there are some that I find offensive. But hey that was someone elses name and I don't even know why it's called that.
But no Savage never suggested changing history - just limiting our future names to his sensibilities (whether or not ones sensibilities agreed with his or not).
I challenge you to find a single route names that would be deemed inappropriate in a rated R movie.
I get that putting up a route and calling it "salad tossing bung pirates" and doing this at school rock (fictional) where all the routes are named rated G kiddy sounding things would be lame. That said I think the bung pirates name above would be perfectly fine in other areas. But wait these are MY sensibilities and not everyone will agree with me, even though they really should...really...seriously....
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Nov 19, 2014 - 10:20am PT
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"liturature"?
At least the squirt namers are liturate.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Nov 19, 2014 - 10:22am PT
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John,
No I wouldn't ask someone to change their route name. I might not hang out with the person who's speech I found offensive but i'm not going to ask someone to change their route name.
One name that seems offensive to me is "Black Chicks in Heat" but who knows maybe two black chicks put it up on a sweltering day at the Gorge.
I also wouldn't ask someone to remove bolts or add bolts to their route. Now if they came to me and solicited my opinion i'd give it.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 19, 2014 - 10:27am PT
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kev, the questions of adding bolts and route names are not equivalent, nor directly related.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Nov 19, 2014 - 10:32am PT
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And excusing that kind of behavior simply because its too hard to protect a child from everything is weak
So what grade is "Catcher in the Rye" okay?
And Oh FUK we better remove "The Canterbury Tales" - that's some pervey kinky sh#t there (granted you need an old english dictionary but you'd need an urban dictionary for some of the route names).
What are you protecting your child from? Life? Reality? Words?
Again for the last time - I'm not advocating for any name just advocating for route naming freedom! Free the vowels and consonants equally. Allow PWT to be PWT!
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this just in
climber
north fork
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Nov 19, 2014 - 10:43am PT
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This thread has inspired me to put up some new routes. Thinking one will be called Care Bears Care, another the Yellow Power Ranger, and maybe Barney the Purple Headed Dinosaur.
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Cancer Boy
Trad climber
Freedonia
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Nov 19, 2014 - 10:53am PT
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Crass can be brilliant or moronic. It's time for the TOP TEN list. Any takers? Anal tounge darts and way homo sperm burpers from fresno surely rate the brilliant (zone 10) designation.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Nov 19, 2014 - 10:59am PT
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Pretty much everyone I have climbed with has given at least one route a raunchy name. It is humor people. The tolerance gate should swing both ways.
Raunchy humor is not an endorsement of sexism, misogyny, homophobia, bestiality or anything else. People that truly endorse those things will eventually out themselves, and be treated by society the way they so richly deserve.
I have been climbing for 46 years and my kids have been climbing and round climbers for more than 20. I am a total mess but my kids turned out ok in spite of it. To each his own.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Nov 19, 2014 - 11:09am PT
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Possible nomination for the for the top 10
In the pinnacles at the formation called "The Back Door"
"Limp at Last"
"Mr. Hugh G. Rection"
"The Gag"
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Nov 19, 2014 - 11:28am PT
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Creatively naming routes after body parts/functions and the funny words we invent for them can be hilarious. Many here:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1222822&tn=0&mr=0
My guess is that what Spider is getting at is route-names that are abusive of a certain group of people, putting them down, sending a message that they are excluded from equal participation in the climbing community.
And that's not cool whether the group of people targeted is women, blacks, asians, jews, gays, etc.
Though I'm not sure there are many really egregious examples. Black Chicks in Heat is pretty nasty. Maybe there's a context that explains and justifies that name, like "Jews on Crack" at the Creek.
Maybe a better way to think of this issue is that in the more equal, non-sexist climbing community that we are becoming, boys will still think of crassly sexist names but would consider that such names may cause offense to partners and friends they know and respect: so they would choose less sexist names.
No censorship needed, just a bit more empathy.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Nov 19, 2014 - 12:20pm PT
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More empathy is always a good thing, but this seems to be a non-problem that no one but some old white guys are even aware of.
I reckon the 'problem' will work itself out as the new generations name their trophies. Working with teens in climbing indicates that New Age sensitivity is not experiencing a comeback, but that's just anecdotal, of course. The latest joke meme circulating among the kids involves finding oneself inadvertently trapped in a drum circle.
In any case, time heals all wounds.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 19, 2014 - 12:26pm PT
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"but this seems to be a non-problem that no one but some old white guys are even aware of. "
Sort of true, but the degradation process has only increased over the decades. Given this trend, and how unlikely that 'future generations' will change anything, one can only imagine how much further into the slime we are headed for. Cheers!
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TwistedCrank
climber
Released into general population, Idaho
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Nov 19, 2014 - 12:26pm PT
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"The Dripping Clit"
"The Lips"
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Nov 19, 2014 - 12:30pm PT
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That's an insult to slime mold everywhere.
A strong dose of lightening up makes the medicine of life go down. If you really want to fight a good fight - a woman's right to choose is rapidly being flushed down the toi toi. Good place to start with the whole R E S P E C T thing.
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