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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Oct 23, 2014 - 05:32am PT
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these have upset me far more than the misguided art of a young person trying to understand a screwed over world.
krahmes, she is in fact screwing over the world herself. Regarding misguided bolt placements just imagine how upset you'd be if everyone of them was a painted piece of art.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 23, 2014 - 05:43am PT
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Fritz spot on.
Bergbryce 'gets it.'
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Oct 23, 2014 - 05:48am PT
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Toker...I find the camo angle offensky..! : )
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Oct 23, 2014 - 08:50am PT
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Anything bad that happens to her is OK.
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Branscomb
Trad climber
Lander, WY
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Oct 23, 2014 - 09:21am PT
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Just...f#$%ing...unbelievably...clueless
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east side underground
climber
Hilton crk,ca
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Oct 23, 2014 - 10:15am PT
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tioga do you live in a house, own a car? mankind is destructive, but maybe we can try to save some areas from our influence, and suggessting that it is ok for some bimbo to deface public lands, we are trying to preserve is lame
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 23, 2014 - 10:43am PT
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Hey, Dingleberry,
I studied environmental conservation under Horace Quick at CU, Boulder.
I wrote a paper that predicted that cam nuts could mitigate crack damage done by pitons more than 3 years before Friends even came on the market! (thanks to working with the TRUE inventor of the cam nut, Greg Lowe)
I was the first person to climb a desert wall without carrying a hammer (and solo). Who besides Conrad (on the same route) has done as much in the 33 and a half years since?
They all carry hammers to "supplement" their chock craft.
We are not going to fence off our public domain. We are going to use it. And by using it we have an impact. Wise people use the land with an eye towards how their use will affect those who follow.
I still get complaints that people who do my routes can't even see the drilled angle right in front of them. Thats how I like it.
Screw you about missing the point. You're the one missing it.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 23, 2014 - 10:45am PT
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Equating graffiti or this woman's 'art' (or justifying it) with chalk, petroglyphs, wholesale development of land, bolts, etc. is ridiculous.
It's called false equivalency, and it's done by people who either don't have a directly relating retort, or simply for the purposes of arguing & distraction, or by unintelligent people who don't understand the world.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 23, 2014 - 10:59am PT
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'graffiti'
tioga, you are an angry person.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 23, 2014 - 11:15am PT
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Are you always a lumper? Ever try being a splitter?
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Oct 23, 2014 - 12:01pm PT
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Equating graffiti or this woman's 'art' (or justifying it) with chalk, petroglyphs, wholesale development of land, bolts, etc. is ridiculous.
True, unless the chalk and bolts are installed in locations where they are illegal. Close to an equivalent, in that case.
The "artist" should be punished as the NPS sees fit. No more, no less. She's young, ignorant but will learn and remember this the rest of her life. I hope the publicity sends enough of a message to enough people that some acts of future vandalism by others are prevented.
DMT's glass house comment is warranted.
There's been similar (equivalent?) behavior within the climbing world with folks (some of whom are personal friends, all of whom are good, cool, people) who really should be a bit smarter than the woman who inspired this thread:
1. Bolts. Climbers spraying online about their proud project/FA (or earning money from selling photos of said climb), which has bolt anchors, located in a national park where bolts are banned. I mean, doh! Here's one example (not the only one I've heard of):
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/capital-reef-climbers-draw-fines-after-their-photo-is-used-in-the-patagonia-catalog/109500116
2. Plaques. OK in Indian Creek. Please think long and hard before carving them anywhere else. Never, ever, ever, carve a plaque in a national park. And if anyone finds one in a national park, please destroy/remove/hide it. Interesting debate here:
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/106178621
3. And of course there's that Midnight Lightning drawing on a boulder in Camp 4 (thanks for the reminder, mouse!). Old enough now that it is pretty much grandfathered in as a historic artifact, a reminder of Bachar's genius. But still....
A heads-up to sponsored climbers/climbing bloggers: The NPS of 2014 is not the laid-back, friendly, forgiving NPS of Piton Ron's (and my!) heyday. These days the regulations are far stricter and the rangers, if given reason to do so, will painstakingly search social media. And after-the-fact blowback can be really harsh--ask Dean Potter about this.
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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Oct 23, 2014 - 12:02pm PT
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“but the society she lives in disfigured and poisoned such immense areas of land... Everyone who's living in a dwelling is disfiguring some land”
Actually, Tioga, there are planning and design professionals who have been working on that very issue for some time now.
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east side underground
climber
Hilton crk,ca
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Oct 23, 2014 - 12:11pm PT
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tioga, burn your house, kill your computer move into the wilderness, escape society. sorry about the other billons of folks who will continue to f*#k up the planet. don't sweat the small sh#t, the cig butts, plastic in the ocean , graffii in national parks, let's f*#king nuke civilization, mankind is going down anyway, right? f*#k it.... bring it!
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Typewriters and Ledges
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Oct 23, 2014 - 12:38pm PT
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 23, 2014 - 02:07pm PT
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Is that the best riposte you can come up with after accusing me of living in a glass house?
Pretty weak (or are you strong enough to reconsider your comment?)
I fall back on decades of experience to temper my judgement every time I reach for a hammer, and my work is for enjoying lives, even saving them.
I'm all for art, but tagging ten parks and then bragging about it on Twitface calls for a strong response.
edit; but I got a good chuckle out of Crunch's description of the friendly rangers
He doesn't know how a british accent works like litiguous armor to buffer the encounter.
Yeah, BITD I got hauled up a side road by rangers and worked over, and plenty more.
The more things change the more this stays the same; tools will be tools.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Oct 23, 2014 - 03:30pm PT
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Okay
yo
If you think that I am so rude then take it down too.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 23, 2014 - 03:36pm PT
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The NPS has issued a press release.
http://home.nps.gov/news/release.htm?id=1649
National Park Service Press Release
For Immediate Release:
October 22, 2014
Contact(s): Jeffrey G. Olson, Jeffrey_olson@nps.gov, 202-208-6843
Vandalism reported in 10 national parks of the West
Incidents illustrated on social media
WASHINGTON: The National Park Service is investigating reports of vandalism in at least 10 national parks in Arizona, California, Colorado, Oregon, and Utah.
While we can’t discuss details of a case under investigation, we take the issue of vandalism seriously. National parks exist to preserve and protect our nation’s natural, cultural and historic heritage for both current and future generations. Vandalism is a violation of the law and it also damages and sometimes destroys often irreplaceable treasures that belong to all Americans.
There are forums for artistic expression in national parks because national parks inspire artistic creativity. These images are outside that forum and outside the law.
Background: Vandalism, as described in the Code of Federal Regulations, 36 CFR 2.31(a)(3): Destroying, injuring, defacing, or damaging property or real property.
Parks affected: Yosemite National Park, California; Death Valley National Park, California; Crater Lake National Park, Oregon; Zion National Park and Canyonlands National Park, both in Utah. We are awaiting confirmation in Grand Canyon National Park, Arizona; Sequoia Kings Canyon National Park and Joshua Tree National Park, both in California; Rocky Mountain National Park, Colorado; Bryce National Park, Utah.
http://www.nps.gov
About the National Park Service. More than 20,000 National Park Service employees care for America's 401 national parks and work with communities across the nation to help preserve local history and create close-to-home recreational opportunities. Visit us at www.nps.gov, on Facebook www.facebook.com/nationalparkservice, Twitter www.twitter.com/natlparkservice, and YouTube www.youtube.com/nationalparkservice.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Oct 23, 2014 - 03:56pm PT
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When they catch her, rather than throwing her in prison and costing us more money, have her decontaimnate each location. By decontamination I mean all the fluids used to remove the art get packed in and packed out.
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couchmaster
climber
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Oct 23, 2014 - 04:00pm PT
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Are you guys positing that hot girls DON'T get a pass then?
#confusing
#rulechange
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