Russia vs EU vs NATO vs US (OT)

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vlani

Trad climber
mountain view, ca
Mar 4, 2014 - 01:44pm PT
Interesting language in your notes. Some grammar errors here and there - like вранё should be враньё but no American could pronounce it correctly anyways ))
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 4, 2014 - 01:53pm PT
Well, I was transliterating from English and I did say it was for your amusement. ;-)
And as for pronunciation Tadzhiks couldn't quite place my accent but they
were very surprised to learn I was American.
AKDOG

Mountain climber
Anchorage, AK
Mar 4, 2014 - 02:41pm PT

If Obama really was "The Man" (Commander in Chief) then he would stand up to all these criminals within the US govt.

But he won't because he said he doesn't want to end up as JFK.

The USA is run by criminals now .....

Priceless (WB quote), on the other side Russia is also run by criminals; so at some point the Mafia bosses need to meet, US-Russia war is not an palpable option.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 4, 2014 - 03:34pm PT
Dingus, turn yer head and cough.
vlani

Trad climber
mountain view, ca
Mar 4, 2014 - 05:17pm PT
Official comment from Russian Foreign Affairs ministry, today, Google translate, slightly brushed:
http://www.mid.ru/brp_4.nsf/newsline/572FDD87A1C9E67E44257C91005EDA6F

Sounding in recent days from Washington threats to "punish" Russia for the hard line it took in resolving the crisis in Ukraine is not only depressing for lack of basic knowledge of the history by those who are keen to discuss this topic . Worse is that this American politicians and statesmen seem to loose sense of adequate perception of the real situation in a rapidly changing multi-polar world of the XXI century .
Whenever something happens that does not fit in molded American scheme , there are those who would like to grab the "sanctions cudgel." That has become a reflex of sort. Threaten us with "serious consequences ", announced freeze military cooperation , suspending dialogue on forming a new framework for trade and investment ties , canceling previously planned contacts at various levels . Promise new measures - even though that damage will inevitably be mutual. Emotions and a nuisance because you they could not impose their will , nor subordinate their own ideas about where the "correct" , and where the "wrong" side of the history take precedence over common sense and logic .
We repeatedly - with the facts in hand and with the legal calculations - explained to Americans why their unilateral sanction measures do not fit into the standards of civilized interstate relations. The desired effect is never achieved. So, we will have to answer - and do not necessarily in mirrored way . As always in such situations provoked by reckless and irresponsible actions of Washington, we emphasize : this is not our choice.

Very polite, no F-words this time
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Mar 4, 2014 - 06:21pm PT
http://scgnews.com/washingtons-role-in-the-ukrainian-coup-how-it-may-spin-out-of-control
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Mar 4, 2014 - 07:56pm PT
Are you saying that we intervened in Yugoslavia as part of the plot to ensure the return of Caliphate and Muslim supremacy Obammmaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, oil pipelines.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 4, 2014 - 08:36pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

[Click to View YouTube Video]

This is gonna get really ugly.
vlani

Trad climber
mountain view, ca
Mar 4, 2014 - 09:00pm PT
Hopefully not. Some egos will be bruised that is for sure.

That episode with guns - Belbek air base within Sebastopol city limits. 45 fighter jets and 4 training jets. Only 4 fighter jets and 1 training plane are operational, according to local website. Bruised egos..
Degaine

climber
Mar 5, 2014 - 03:40am PT
vlani wrote:
Worse is that this American politicians and statesmen seem to loose sense of adequate perception of the real situation in a rapidly changing multi-polar world of the XXI century .

There's clearly that and also likely the desire to start a second Cold War, it's good for the businesses of their campaign contributors. The War on Terror just isn't paying the dividends it did even just 5 or 6 years ago.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 5, 2014 - 02:48pm PT
Nine minutes well spent watching that video above.

TGT and I have nothing in common. I'm a military man, he's not. I'm a liberal, he's not. I have Ukrainian blood, he doesn't.

Don't pretend to tell me you know the way out as your republican overlords would have us believe.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 5, 2014 - 02:54pm PT
Survival, I don't generally watch vids, unless they're of dogs and babies,
but did you read the op-ed I posted on the previous page? (I don't mean
my op-eds) It doesn't take nine minutes, unless you ponder or you're one
of the seemingly many reading comprehension challenged of the ST ranks,
which I am quite sure you're not. ;-)

I am rather chuffed to see that Putin is acting somewhat restrained as I
predicted he would.
vlani

Trad climber
mountain view, ca
Mar 5, 2014 - 04:27pm PT
Someone (Russians?) had intercepted the conversation of EU envoy with his boss on his trip to Kiev and posted it on tube: [Click to View YouTube Video].

Very disturbin view of the 'revolucionaries' and their acts on the ground. Very different picture compare to the official media portraying of the glorious 'freedom fighters'.

The most interesting is the short bit at the end of conversation on the snipers. It becomes more and more evident that the killings were likely done not by the government forces but by the anti-government group. Makes sense, giving the outcome of the escalation and how obvious that outcome was beforehand.

US and EU supporting the wrong guys again?
Majid_S

Mountain climber
Karkoekstan
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2014 - 02:41pm PT
French-made warship destined for Russia sets sail


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/french-made-warship-destined-russia-sets-sail-082522549.html
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 6, 2014 - 03:08pm PT
I hate to be the one to break this to you Ron, but that's not new to "these days".
We never backed anyone, who was willing to tell us they believed in our interests in the 90's or 80's or 70's or 60's or 50's or 40's or 30's or 20's or the 19th century or the 18th century.

Wake up and smell the coffee.
vlani

Trad climber
mountain view, ca
Mar 6, 2014 - 04:18pm PT
The main reason to get nukes out of Ukraine was so it would not sell them to the highest bidder.
Ukraine is the largest player in the illegal arms trade, has been this way from the day of it's creation, and has the most corrupt government imaginable.

And the Ukrainian army is completely dysfunctional, has been this way forever. Do you remember the passenger jet they shut down during military exercise a while back? Letting the same people to control nukes is irresponsible at best.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Mar 12, 2014 - 09:49pm PT
"From my perspective, Putin may see six major geo-political weaknesses in the U.S. position. First, he recognizes that the U.S. military and the U.S. public have grown weary of ill-advised foreign interventions. Second, Russia's close trade and energy connections to Western Europe are causing dissension among NATO allies at the prospect of a Continental conflict. The potential for Putin to drive a wedge between the U.S. and wavering EU allies is a risk that Washington must consider.

Third, Putin is acutely aware that a "victory" of Ukranian interests at the expense of Moscow will further weaken Russia's ability to maintain the allegiance of the remaining scraps of its old Soviet empire.

Fourth, Putin knows that Obama needs Russian support over key U.S. initiatives in Iran, Syria and North Korea. Further confrontation of the Crimea may come at a very high price to other interests that are much more vital to Washington.

Fifth, Putin knows that the United States does not wish to see Russia revert to a closer relationship with China, just as China expands her maritime and territorial interests in the Pacific. It is no accident that Beijing has been eerily silent with respect to Russian policy in Europe. Putin knows that oil rich Middle Eastern rulers feel deserted by the U.S. over its proposed nuclear deal with Iran and are looking for new 'protective' allies. It is a power vacuum that China and Russia would be glad to fill.

For its part, Washington must be conscious of the possibility of Russia striking back at the U.S. economically through disruptive sales of its $138 billion war chest of Treasury bonds. Such a move could trigger a financial panic in the West, especially if the moves could be coordinated with Russian allies."

TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Mar 12, 2014 - 11:17pm PT
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/03/12/obama-regimes-hypocrisy-sets-new-world-record-paul-craig-roberts/


March 12, 2014
Obama Regime’s Hypocrisy Sets New World Record

Paul Craig Roberts

From the moment that Washington launched its orchestrated coup in Kiev, Washington has been accusing Russia of “intervening in Ukraine.” This propaganda ploy succeeded. The Western presstitute media reported (nonexistent) Russian intervention to the exclusion of coverage of Washington’s obvious intervention.

Having falsely accused Russia of invading Crimea, the Obama regime now demands that Russia interfere in Crimea and prevent the referendum set for next Sunday. Unless Russia uses force to prevent the people of Crimea from exercising their right of self-determination, John Kerry declared that the Obama regime will not discuss the Ukrainian situation with Russia.

So, Kerry has given Russia the green light to send in troops to prevent Crimean self-determination.

The presstitute Western media has not noticed that out of one corner of his mouth Kerry denounces Russia for intervening and out of the other corner of his mouth Kerry demands that Russia intervene in behalf of Washington’s interest and suppress Crimean self-determination.

What is the point of such an absurd demand on Russia?

The Obama regime claims that the Crimean vote is not legal, because all of Ukraine is not voting on Crimea’s future. When Washington stole Kosovo from Serbia, Washington did not allow Serbia to vote on Kosovo secession. In the upcoming Scottish vote on whether to secede from the UK, only the Scottish are voting, not the British population. But these normal processes established in international law cannot be permitted to Crimeans, because the vote will not support Washington’s agenda.

Clearly, an Obama regime this shameless has no shame.

The neoconservative warmongers who control the Obama regime are boasting that unless Russia prevents Crimean self-determination, Washington will use sanctions to
“badly damage the Russian economy.”

Sanctions are likely to backfire. Sanctions would damage economies of Washington’s NATO puppet states, making them think again about providing cover for Washington’s aggressive words and deeds. It is Europe that will pay for Washington’s aggressive actions.

Sanctions are likely to speed up the implementation of the BRICS negotiations to leave the dollar system and settle their international accounts in their own currencies. All countries with financial and economic links to the West can be intimidated, punished, and destabilized by Washington. National sovereignty is inconsistent with being part of the US dollar system.

From Washington’s standpoint, the importance of sanctions is not any economic effects.
The importance is the propaganda advantage of portraying Russia as an offending party who is punished by Washington. Not only does this propaganda put Russia in the wrong, it also portrays Russia as subservient to Washington.

The Crimean government is actually elected, whereas the Washington-installed government in Kiev is not. Here is a report on Global Research about the “democrats” who comprise the unelected government in Kiev: http://www.globalresearch.ca/whos-who-in-ukraines-new-semi-fascist-government-meet-the-people-the-u-s-and-eu-are-supporting/5372422

During the Clinton, George W. Bush, and Obama regimes, Washington has established that whatever serves Washington’s agenda is legal. Laws inconsistent with Washington’s agenda are simply not applicable. They are dead letter laws. Therefore, it comes as no surprise that in violation of US law that prohibits giving financial assistance to governments whose leaders come to power via coup or other illegal means, Washington is offering its stooges in Kiev $1 billion to help the coup government get up and running.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Mar 12, 2014 - 11:39pm PT
Uh the reason we are even in this is we were part of the nato agreement to help the Ukraine defend its boarders if they were to give up their stock pile of Nukes. The Ukraine gave up their Nukes and its our duty with the European countries who also signed that agreement to help them defend their country from this type of illegal invasion.

Germany signed on the line as well and they are not upholding their end of the bargain.

I believe the Ukraine had the third or fourth largest collection of nukes at the time of the agreement.

If we did not sign on the to this disarmament we would not be having this discussion and the Ukraine would be nuking Moscow or Putin would not have sent his troops.

These are neo-con and liberal war-hawk talking-points being spouted by idiots in the MSM who haven't followed either the treaty, or the events that led to this situation.

The events that led to the current situation were a revolt and a coup started in Ukraine. An illegal coup that deposed several democratically elected people in Ukrainian gov't. You can say whatever you will about how corrupt or not they were, but this started because the leader of Ukraine thought it wasn't best to join the EU. The people in a certain part of Ukraine disagreed.

They turned the protests violent. And there is indeed evidence that they were spurred by ultra-nationalist fascists. Think occupy Wall Street with guns.

Russia intervened when police started to get killed. (Remember Serbia?). Russia is allowed to interevene and break the Treaty if it's in self-defense.

They would argue that Russian loyalists in Crimea were in danger of reprisal from ultra-nationalists from the northwest. Russia walked into Crimea to defend her leased bases on the Black Sea and defending Crimeans, but primarily to defend her ports.

It's a sticky situation, but Russia can legitimately argue they were defend their assets against aggression.

And yeah, it's similar to Germany in the 30's, but Russia is DEFENDING Jews/Christians. It's a bit simplistic to go the Nazi route in this situation. Some would say Russia is defending against Nationalist Fascists, once again.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Mar 12, 2014 - 11:44pm PT
Reinstate Tymoshenko. Pretty easy on the eyes and I like her braid as a crown look.
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