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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
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Nov 15, 2013 - 10:29pm PT
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universal health care from the cradle to the grave
I'm in favor, but just what is included here? My mom was coverd by "medicare advantage" and it took her right into the grave.
It's a big task but medicine needs to be reformed as much as (probably more)does the provision of health care.
Does that Aspen mansion have a car elevator?
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Nov 15, 2013 - 11:24pm PT
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for Dr Kos!
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Nov 15, 2013 - 11:25pm PT
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...
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Nov 15, 2013 - 11:27pm PT
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Nov 15, 2013 - 11:29pm PT
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somebody better pay the Dr's!
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nov 15, 2013 - 11:31pm PT
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Nov 16, 2013 - 12:46am PT
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One last thing....Working in the medical arena, having money, having no money, watching people with and without money one thing becomes apparent and important.
We only have one life. Insurance or not take care of your life. I have seen people go on expensive vacations, buy costly cars and then die because they didn't pay for healthcare.
My life comes first no matter what the government does with healthcare. I hope yours does too. Cheers, lynnie
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Nov 16, 2013 - 07:59am PT
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"Let's prove that "American Exceptionalisim" is more than just hubris. The richest country on earth....a country with 27 year old billionaires and super rich hedge fund managers and venture capitalist who produce nothing, a country with a growing and dangerous divide in the wealth of it's citizens....the least a country like our's can do is provide universal health care from the cradle to the grave.
The rich can grumble about socialisim but they'll still be able to build 20,000 square foot mansions in Aspen that they use two weeks a year."
your class envy (and bitterness) is astounding
ok, where to begin....
first, though it's so obvious i hesitate to say it but you obviously keep forgetting it, so, NOTHING is "free"; i do agree that the rich should give more to those who don't have enough; the only difference between you and me is that i strictly oppose the government forcing the rich to give more
well, another difference is that i admire people who have become rich (as long as they do it legally) including the hedge fund managers and venture capitalists who risk the funds and capital that allow entrepreneurs to build cool stuff and employ lots of people
but most of us have "disposable income", which is why we're able to harangue each other on st rather than spend this time working, so, donini, why not use your disposable income to pay for a poor person's health care instead of wasting it on climbing gear and trips and beer, etc.? wouldn't that be a better use of your extra cash? in fact, rather than sitting there seething about me, why not spend your extra time working to make yourself richer so you can pay for a poor person's medication? why not set an example for all those evil rich people? i bet you'll feel a lot better about yourself and, probably, will find you just don't have time to feel so much resentment toward rich people, which will also make you feel better
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Nov 16, 2013 - 08:41am PT
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Better than free would be fair pricing. Doctor visit $25. Broken leg $500 to set. Birth $800.
Healthcare prices went bad when govt got involved and that has to do with taxes.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Nov 16, 2013 - 09:00am PT
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Yup- nothing's free. Our gov. has the dough, they just (obviously) choose to mishandle it and greedy finaglers seem to have possession of the hammer and the entire piggy bank. It's totally out of control. I don't see any reason we, as Americans, shouldn't be entitled to health care provided by our wealthy government. It could be done, it's just all so corrupt and broken.
I see reports about how many sickening billions of dollars are spent on meddling in other countries and war and think.. sh#t. for that price tag they could simply buy a modest health care plan for every man woman and child in the US.
@JGHenge: @Pyro"..Simple, really". Yes, yes it is ;)
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Nov 16, 2013 - 11:06am PT
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Those who can debate, do
Those who can't, post pictures and cartoons.
keep that drum circle booming hedge!
keep chanting it's free it's free!
pictures say's thousand words
Dr Kos love ur story! no deductible nice
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chappy
Social climber
ventura
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Nov 16, 2013 - 12:39pm PT
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Bookworm,
Really? Class envy?? Bitterness?? I like how you miss quoted Jim: (having free in quotation marks). Jim used the word universal not free. Of course he knows nothing is free just as he knows living a rich life isn't all about possessions. His whole point was that we are rich enough country to have it both ways--the rich can have their mansions and we can have universal health care--we simply lack the national moral will to make it happen. I happen to agree with him. I think we, as a country, need to ask ourselves why such a basic human need isn't being more adequately addressed, why we seem to be behind most of the industrialized world in dealing with this issue.
Chappy
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nov 16, 2013 - 12:43pm PT
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We need this too!
http://www.federalobserver.com/2013/11/12/the-affordable-boat-act-of-2014/
he U.S. government has just passed a new law entitled “The Affordable Boat Act” declaring that every citizen MUST purchase a new boat by April, 2014.
These ‘affordable’ boats will cost an average of $54,000-$155,000 each. This does not include taxes, trailers, towing fees, licensing and registration fees, fuel, docking and storage fees, maintenance, or repair costs.
This law has been passed because, until now, typically only wealthy and financially responsible people have been able to purchase boats. This new law ensures that every American can now have an ‘affordable’ boat of their own, because everyone is ‘entitled’ to a new boat. If you purchase your boat before the end of the year, you will receive four ‘free’ life jackets (does not include monthly usage fees).
In order to make sure everyone purchases an ‘affordable boat,’ the cost of owning a boat will increase on average of 250-400% per year. This way, wealthy people will pay more for something that other people don’t want or can’t afford to maintain. But, to be fair, people who can’t afford to maintain their boat will be regularly fined and children (under the age of 26) can use their parents boat(s) to party on until they turn 27, after which date they must purchase their own boat..............
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 16, 2013 - 12:54pm PT
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Yeah Mark....little ole bookyworm sounds like the one seething, his tongue must never be in cheek.
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sempervirens
climber
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Nov 16, 2013 - 01:01pm PT
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What if the ideals are put aside and the economics of health care are discussed. Forget the typical rants about the greedy rich and the lazy poor. Consider the system, the price we pay and the services we get. Does anyone believe our system is as good as it can be? Is there no better way?
Can the federal government control prices? Hasn't the system already been controlled, long before Obamacare? Has that worked well? If healthcare were cheaper then it would not account for 1/6 (by many estimates)of our GDP.
If we had a single payer system that single payer could have a damn strong negotiating position on price. By the way, negotiating price is a free market principle, isn't it.
For sake of discussion: if it was a better system, and provided free care to some truly lazy free loaders who game the system, and yet saved money for the majority of us while providing better or even equal services, would you conservatives oppose it? If so, why? Just out of spite? Or is it because of your fear of Hitler and Stalin and socialist ideals? The ideals and the economic reality are not as closely related as the media would have us believe, IMO.
If you agree we can improve the system, and we should do it, then isn't that enough reason to dump the tea party and ted cruz attitudes opposing any change?
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Nov 16, 2013 - 01:02pm PT
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sempervirens
climber
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Nov 16, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
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Health care economics is a complex topic, no. "We can't afford it", is not a very productive answer to the problem since we're already paying outrageous amounts.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 16, 2013 - 01:31pm PT
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Let's prove that "American Exceptionalisim" is more than just hubris. The richest country on earth....a country with 27 year old billionaires and super rich hedge fund managers and venture capitalist who produce nothing, a country with a growing and dangerous divide in the wealth of it's citizens....the least a country like our's can do is provide universal health care from the cradle to the grave.
The rich can grumble about socialisim but they'll still be able to build 20,000 square foot mansions in Aspen that they use two weeks a year.
Wow. And you should be old enough to remember your history.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 16, 2013 - 01:45pm PT
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Right you are bluering. My father was a history professor, I'm quite grounded in the subject and not just American History.
Did you see my invitating to climb in Indian Creek? Gas up your car, i'll do the barbeque.
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