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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Nov 14, 2013 - 02:45pm PT
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If this results in the climbing industry shrinking in size to primarily support real climbers, so be it. Our areas need the break anyway, and any industry can only generate so much profit anyway.
LOL
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Nov 14, 2013 - 02:46pm PT
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Looks like popcorn for lunch.
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Nov 14, 2013 - 02:52pm PT
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Frieh why don't you publish the original applications so we can see how you represent the project and resources? We both know you were spoon fed the information.
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Nov 14, 2013 - 04:43pm PT
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Good thing the original thread was deleted. Otherwise these two might argue in public.
"We're not the place to air dispute"
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Nov 14, 2013 - 05:36pm PT
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If a climber is sponsored for gear and some money, is that climber double-dipping by receiving grant funds?
Since many of the grants were originally intended to boost the efforts of up and coming climbers, should already acknowledged and supported climbers be encouraged to go after these scant funds?
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Nov 14, 2013 - 05:58pm PT
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For me the photo is just a little tiny detail, with the other stuff being whats important here. The only difference is stealing the photo is the only place the law was blatantly broken by you, whereas the other stuff just portrays you as a really despicable person. If I were you I would address that stuff.
+1
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Nov 14, 2013 - 06:42pm PT
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Hailey also hasn't spayed about it at every chance. That's something that Frieh gave me his word that he wouldn't do but has anyway
Rudi's book came out on Dec. 15th 2011. That's after the grants had already been applied for.
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Nov 15, 2013 - 02:23pm PT
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Frieh said "It comes down to this: the American Alpine Club and Polartec did investigate Mr Kelley's claims in the spring of 2012 and looked at his emails as well as my emails. Everyone (minus Mr Kelley) concluded the only thing I did wrong was use his photo without securing written permission."
Well that was the only thing you did that was illegal.
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cheamster
Trad climber
Vancouver
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Nov 15, 2013 - 02:54pm PT
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so he left you for another and took your record collection with him. man, this is a real sob story.
when someone does something illegal the first thing I do is go complain about it on the internet to get sympathy from my internet buddies, just like any other alaskan hardman. those 50s and 60s jazz records are irreplaceable!
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Nov 15, 2013 - 03:01pm PT
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Why are you so vested in this situation cheamster, that you would join the forum just to post on this thread?? What's the dif?
Edit- anonymously
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Nov 15, 2013 - 03:19pm PT
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Anytime you call someone out on their bad behavior it's kind of a bummer for everyone, but John Kelley is not the source of the problem. And these kinds of rants can have a positive effect and make others think twice before they do something similar.
No doubt JF would have conducted himself differently had he known his behavior would be splattered all over ST. JF's response so far has been something akin to "I'm sorry....that I was caught".
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cheamster
Trad climber
Vancouver
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Nov 15, 2013 - 03:30pm PT
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long time listener, first time caller.
this isn't about me, this is about an internet lynch mob. suffice it to say i am not a fan of these types of public humiliations, nor of those who instigate them. like i said before, there are always two sides to every story, and now that johnk has you frothing at the mouth with a pitchfork...well I don't think the truth is going to be served. all you have heard is one side of the story, and there is little reason for the other side to join this fray at this point. I think Chris had it right, this is not the right place for this to be resolved. But I do understand that you all love train wrecks.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Nov 15, 2013 - 03:43pm PT
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long time listener, first time caller.
With a name like cheamster, and being from Vancouver, you've probably got some stories about the peaks in the Cheam group. So why not post up some of those? Forget this train wreck/lynching
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cheamster
Trad climber
Vancouver
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Nov 15, 2013 - 03:45pm PT
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now that is funny. i appreciate your humor, internet sleuth.
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Prezwoodz
climber
Anchorage
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Nov 15, 2013 - 03:46pm PT
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This all happened in Spring of 2012? Man you hold onto things for a long time.
Alright he used JKs photo and acknowledge that it was wrong. Fair enough. But I highly doubt that he was given all his grant money because of JKs photo. It was the objective they were supporting.
They didn't give him money to publish a book with information and pictures he hasn't gathered. He was given the money to go climb a mountain. He used the information he gathered to tell them of that objective. He did not take the money and then take a nap on the couch and use that information to say that he had climbed the route. That would be a whole different story.
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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Nov 15, 2013 - 03:51pm PT
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But I do understand that you all love train wrecks.
If you are a long time listener as you say, you must also love train wrecks.
Personally, I think Cheamster has an agenda that he/she doesn't want to disclose.
Sometimes, the court of public opinion is an appropriate forum to air a grievance. Using the ST forum, whether right or wrong is one way to do so.
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cheamster
Trad climber
Vancouver
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Nov 15, 2013 - 04:07pm PT
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I agree internet forums are a great place to discuss ethical quandaries, I just disagree when it comes to singling out some one who apparently doesn't even participate in these forums and attempting to humiliate them.
Are we going to discuss every participant in this conversation's motives? Or only those you disagree with? I actually think we have the same motives: truth. However, where we differ is that you somehow think that is going to be achieved here, and I don't.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Nov 15, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
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St is at it's worst when folks get all sanctimonious.
Exhibit A
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1397810&tn=0&mr=0
Chris deleted Exhibit B & C.
Kind of like the time Ammon did a speed ascent and shared it here. In it he used a single placement of a single piton where a clean piece would go. Damn, the sanctimony was strong by the internet denzions decrying the attack on mother rock and all things holy about clean climbing which seemed to go on endlessly, whereas Ammon just left.
He went climbing and stayed away for some time. Was harsh crap to keep seeing.
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Nov 15, 2013 - 04:18pm PT
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There are two ways to "prove" what happened. One is to view the email conversation between Frieh and I. The other is for Frieh to post his original grant application so we can see how he represents the project and resources.
After posting the emails in the last thread it was deleted due to his, and others maybe, complaints. He hasn't (likely won't) published his grant application. It he has even half a leg to stand on why doesn't want this info to get out?
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Nov 15, 2013 - 04:20pm PT
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no one cares jk.
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