Tree Incident and Environmental Responsibility

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GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Oct 23, 2013 - 04:33pm PT

^^ good perspective.

squishy

Mountain climber

Oct 23, 2013 - 04:37pm PT

I like that perspective too, well said..

Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber

Old and Broken Down in Appalachia

Oct 23, 2013 - 04:38pm PT

The underlying problem is that many climbers see the world as their personal playground, and feel that they have the right to do whatever they want in order to climb.

We see this attitude manifested in action like the "tree incident," disregard for Wilderness regulations, irresponsible bolting, dumping of trash at expedition basecamps, etc.

I am not perfect and I have committed by own transgressions in the past, but I am now more reverent of the mountains and mindful of my impact on the wilderness.

If you want to tackle problems like to "tree incident" then you have to understand and address the unlerying attitude problem.

"Growing up" and becoming mature certainly plays a role.

LuckyPink

climber

the last bivy

Oct 23, 2013 - 05:16pm PT

Back to the intent of the OP:

When a sponsored climber plans and executes a reprehensible illegal act and the sponsors excuse him, the question of what is the ethical standard in the sport of climbing and who is going to support it comes to the front.

These corporations are obviously in no way the standard bearers they would like to make themselves out to be.

Seems to me there's no question that chipping and old growth tree cutting are against the standard ethic. I wonder who is going to stand up for this? And how? An environmental ethic has grown in the culture at large with education, public relations, and some of the government regulations. I wonder if orgs such as American Alpine Club or Sierra Club will have any statements regarding the Kinder/Pringle event?

squishy

Mountain climber

Oct 23, 2013 - 05:31pm PT

I am not going to put my full name out there without a reason, go ahead and pm me a reason and I'll pm you my name, I'd start with your own. There's lots of reasons why I wouldn't put it out in public, and none of them have anything to do with this subject.

cintune

climber

The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen

Oct 23, 2013 - 05:32pm PT

Still no official comment from the Access Fund. This has got to be a nightmare for them; more so than for the gear companies anyway.

squishy

Mountain climber

Oct 23, 2013 - 05:56pm PT

http://www.dpmclimbing.com/articles/view/joe-kinder-chopping-trees-lessons-learned-and-value-wilderness

I never thought about the consequences and the fact that I might be destroying this living thing on Wilderness land.

On wilderness land? REALLY? This just got better...

and....

DPM: A lot of climbers are calling for you to “make it up” somehow. What do you plan to do to make this right?

Joe: It will be a long time before I can simply “make it right”, but I know I have learned a profound lesson that has shaped me as a climber for the better. In that sense, I’m appreciative of the experience and I look forward to being able to influence people, in whatever way I can, to be more mindful of their impact as climbers, and especially as route developers. This world is bigger than just climbing and it feels good to have learned that.

LuckyPink

climber

the last bivy

Oct 23, 2013 - 06:52pm PT

to Joe: two ways you can make it right: remove the route and resign the sponsorships. Be honorable. That would be influential.

GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Oct 23, 2013 - 06:56pm PT

Chuck Norris should've done his f*#king job, is the problem.

Deekaid

climber

Oct 23, 2013 - 07:01pm PT

ohman! that is frigging too funny

PSP also PP

Trad climber

Berkeley

Oct 23, 2013 - 07:17pm PT

The DPM poster is a clueless as JK. Now I understand why access is denied to areas.

cintune

climber

The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen

Oct 23, 2013 - 07:23pm PT

You anonymous self-righteous internet saviors-of-climbing need to realize that being anonymous removes any legitimacy your criticism might have. If you don't believe that your opinions are worth personally standing up for, then why should the sponsors, or anyone else, take you seriously?

Yeah, that's bogus. I've personally identified myself to the sponsors I've contacted and some folk here that I've had actual contact with, but I'm not interested in outing myself to any rabid pro-climber-ball-cupper who might come along and not like seeing one of his shiny 5.14 rockstars dissed for being an idiot. Anonymity doesn't invalidate opinions, and using your real name doesn't make your opinions any more legitimate.

I look forward to being able to influence people, in whatever way I can, to be more mindful of their impact as climbers, and especially as route developers.

So sounds like the Prodigal Son Machine is gonna get cranked to max rpm's anytime now. And we'll all have to be ever so PC about the BS. "Hi! I'm Joe Kindling and I just wanna say that nothing harshes my radness more than people out there trashing our precious natural environment! Say it with me now...."

rnevius

Trad climber

The Range of Light

Oct 23, 2013 - 07:30pm PT

and it may "belong to them" more than most other people.

squishy

Mountain climber

Oct 23, 2013 - 07:49pm PT

I would welcome the opportunity to speak my words in person, that has nothing to do with why I won't publicize my name in a public forum.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Oct 23, 2013 - 07:51pm PT

You are definatly weak sauce . Click on my profile and it has my real name.

GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Oct 23, 2013 - 07:59pm PT

Eh... I have to echo the sentiment that anonymity isn't exactly a 'bad' thing. I don't know Squishy's reasons for remaining anonymous but opinions are opinions regardless. Ron Anderson is of the most opinionated on ST and doesn't even climb anymore, so it isn't like knowing the authors name makes any difference on the opinions - but it might.

I post some pretty weird/harsh sh#t but I don't have one of those suppressive jobs where people google my name to find out what a terrible person I am. School teachers, cops, etc - things might get taken out of context.

My $.02 : /

cintune

climber

The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen

Oct 23, 2013 - 08:05pm PT

Defend my words in person? Unless you're up for driving to Pennsylvania this is as "in person" as it's ever going to get. So stop changing the subject. You think people are being too hard on Joe, right? He's learned his lesson, paid the piper, and it's time to move on, right? Actually I'm fine with that. This has played out in real time but it's not the end of the world, just another little episode in the privileged and narcissistic fiefdom of climbing ethics. Sucks about those trees and hopefully it doesn't cause some reactionary crag owner or land manager to decide that climbers in general can't be trusted anymore. And that's about it.

Just checked, looks like real names are defaulted to private on profiles seen by other members. So take it up with the management, they know who all of us are.