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pitbull
Mountain climber
Co, NY, WV
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usa is not europe we will never be as provencal as europe keep dreaming. do you really think the visitors are going to fabulous climbers from the ALPs. They may have these accomodations in Europe but America is completely different. please there is no room
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Lawny
Trad climber
Arvada, CO
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Pitbull, who are you? No real name so you can hide after your hollow threats. A real name would help your credibility, and once again I ask, where did you move to Eldo from?
John Klooster
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pitbull
Mountain climber
Co, NY, WV
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who are you?
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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It's reminding me of the auto salvage guy at the hairpin turn at the gunks. Tourist attraction visited by people from all over the world, and this guy parks hundreds of junk cars on his property to sell for parts. They need to clear out some of those trailers in Eldo and make some room for people to park.
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pitbull
Mountain climber
Co, NY, WV
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I am not trying to be credible with any of you. Initially, it was not about climbers buying the post office it was just the amount of peole. The character assasignation began with Penn Burris, CFO, of AAC. It does not matter if Jesus and his disciples bought the Post office it is not a place for lodging. the climbers on this forum have made it personal. Please if it was a golf club or church we were opposing you would be right behind us.
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pitbull
Mountain climber
Co, NY, WV
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Don Paul that is all private property. It is not parking space. How about I will let you park at my house for a fee? you wanna pay? the park and the town are not the same
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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Peter makes an excellent point about mixed use, (although I would suggest the European model for use of space in the mountains is not something to aspire to) which is why I agree in principle to an Eldo climbers' hostel. Even though Eldorado Springs may be ideal from one point of view, it just doesn't make sense in a place where the obstacles to do so are overwhelming; local resistance being the most significant obstacle. I'm sure such a place could be found in the city of Boulder, where everyone would be happy, and the traveling climber would actually be closer to a great variety of climbing. With Eldo being my spiritual home as a climber, I would love to see a place where climbers camp and hang out together, swilling beer and sharing experiences at the entrance to the canyon. But not an the expense of the wishes of the local residents.
Steve, I don't live in Eldo Springs. And I think if you saw the town today, you would see that the town of Eldo Springs has really not been a tourist destination of any significance since at least the invention of camming devices. There have been a few failed attempts of businesses trying to tap into whatever tourism potential exists, but I can't remember any that have survived.
I lived in Jackson before United Airlines started flying skiers direct from Chicago in the early 80's, and there is a direct, economic, tourist-based relationship between those kind of changes and the general well-being of Jackson and the valley as it stands today. No such relationship exists between the well-being of Eldo Springs and the kind of "tourism" that you described seeing in the late 60's.
Can anyone suggest a direct benefit that the town of Eldo Springs reaps from having the climbers' hostel located there? You gotta imagine that any homeowner there would be asking that question.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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usa is not europe we will never be as provencal as europe keep dreaming. do you really think the visitors are going to fabulous climbers from the ALPs. They may have these accomodations in Europe but America is completely different. please there is no room
you seem pretty provincial to me.
heh
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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I would suggest the European model for use of space in the mountains is not something to aspire to
actually, in an increasing number of contexts, i think that some of the european models for mixed use are far better than our sand are exactly what we should be thinking about.
europeans have done a far better job that we have of dealing with populations living in and adjacent to mountains. we've done a better job of keeping human populations out. but that's not the situation here in eldo.
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pitbull
Mountain climber
Co, NY, WV
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Thank you for your support. I agree downtown would be much better suited for the hostel and it would bring support to local business in downtown Boulder. There is zero benefit to the residents of Eldo. The location and scope of the project are not in sync.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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What if they opened a bar and nightclub in conjunction with the hostel? Then the ES residents would have something to do after 10pm.
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pitbull
Mountain climber
Co, NY, WV
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cute snowass
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Private property and the six-shooter lie at the very foundation of western culture. Suggesting we be like Europe here is super naïve - it can only sit as an example of the differences.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Can anyone suggest a direct benefit that the town of Eldo Springs reaps from having the climbers' hostel located there? You gotta imagine that any homeowner there would be asking that question.
who cares? folks who bought a home in eldo springs bought a home in eldo springs. they didnt buy the canyon or the surround. the canyon is a state park with an international reputation, and it's located in what is becoming an entire megalopolitan corridor along the front range whose population growth has been driven in part by amenity migration with places like eldo being one of the amenities.
like it or now, the canyon and much of the surround are a public good. indeed, one of the prime reasons property in eldo springs is valuable is precisely because it borders public land.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Yes I see now a Climber's Lodge is a bad idea for Nimbytown Springs, but a few more trophy McMansions for East Coast investment bankers are da bomb.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Private property and the six-shooter lie at the very foundation of western culture. Suggesting we be like Europe here is super naïve - it can only sit as an example of the differences.
lol
that's the last argument you want to be making. actually, the alps have far more "private" property than do the rockies or the sierra where the majority of acreage is actually in government holdings. the very reason eldo springs property is valuable is because it's attached like a tick to the adjacent public land.
a strict "private property rights" argument here favors the aac. if i were you, i'd keep it holstered.
lol
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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who cares? So klk, that's a no if I understand you correctly, you can't suggest any benefit to Eldo Springs for having a climbers' hostel there.
Again, I don't live in Eldo Springs, and personally as a non-resident, I would love to see a hostel there. That way I could stop by on the days that I don't have a partner and get one on the spot. Have a good watering hole after a climb too, maybe meet some exotic traveling climbers. Cool!
But if you can't list one single good reason why a resident of Eldo Springs should want to have this hostel, you aren't exactly a mover and shaker in the discussion, are you?
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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You only have one chance to make a first impression. In all fairness, the AAC didn't do a particularly good job -- and then made matters worse.
This has given fuel to the fire over what is really a pretty small proposal. This is a Hostel (not Hotel). The commentary from locals ranges from understandable to incendiary, but in all cases plays to people's worst fears and prejudices -- with threats and ad hominem thrown in for good measure.
Someone rhetorically asked how "I" (us climbers) would feel if our towns, neighborhoods, etc. were to be overrun with tourists (which hyperbolic comparison is flawed -- but, no matter).
As someone who actually lives in a town that is massively overrun with tourists -- on a scale thousands of time greater than in Eldorado Canyon -- I can sincerely state that the very small change being proposed is a tempest in a teapot (but, admittedly, your teapot).
Now I have to go, my daughter needs a ride to the beach.
RKV in Laguna Beach, CA
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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This thread is dipping too far into fuktardom. Most of the posts in this thread are of irrelevant fallacies and nonsense.
Fact: Boulder county will not issue a permit for anything that exceeds available parking.
Significant change of use will require consent of the neighbors. Doesn't seem like they'll get it.
AAC would likely be free to purchase the place and make a nice B&B - for about 6 people. Doesn't seem worth 1M.
Done, and over.
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