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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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May 14, 2013 - 01:20am PT
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WBraun
climber
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May 14, 2013 - 01:21am PT
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The last two guys above Wade can't even say anything they're so stupid.
They have to hunt a stupid photo off the internet to talk for them.
Thus mankind has fallen down far below the bottom.
Nothing but stupid people.
A sure sign of the fallen age .......
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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May 14, 2013 - 01:22am PT
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Cragman said:
Locker posting a picture of his beautiful granddaughter just a few posts away from his infamous 'camel toe' picture, (which he clearly does not find offensive), makes him the poster child for all the twisted souls on this site...
Wow, that sounds a lot like a bunch of judgmental, sanctimonious bullsh#t. However, I am sure that is not the case. Cragman is so obviously filled with the love and light of Jesus he would never stoop to being an as#@&%e.
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Some Random Guy
climber
Under a Little Pink Umbrella
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May 14, 2013 - 01:28am PT
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rome fell once....it's going again....
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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May 14, 2013 - 02:04am PT
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Those are all very interesting intellectual viewpoints.
The reality of the world however, is that it is predominantly women who are harassed, raped, kidnapped, murdered and chained to the walls of some guy's basement for ten years, not the other way around. And it all began with objectifying women.
One critique of American feminism by foreigners by the way, is that it has concentrated too much on sexuality and not enough on maternity. I dare say a single woman with children to support is much more concerned with equal wages for equal work than she is by some academic feminist talking about having her vagina worshipped.
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Daphne
Trad climber
Black Rock City
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May 14, 2013 - 02:29am PT
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I come here for the climbing content, and to connect with like-minded climbers. I have a lot of friends here. I have never clicked on either of the boob threads, but I haven't been able to ignore that they exist and I pass my glance by them and it does not feel good.
We do not need a penis thread. The way to give you guys a sample of what if feels like to be objectified is a money thread. That is the parallel issue for men. Show me the bank balances, guys. A really rich guy who can take excellent financial care of me is such a turn on. That's what women really care about anyway. Oooh, baby, you are only valuable because of what you can do for me financially. Or maybe a height thread. Show me all the guys taller than 6 feet, please? Did you know that the average height for men is 5'9"?
Focusing on individual parts of our humanity, like our youth, our sexual attraction, our bank balances or whether we can climb 5.12 or not minimizes all of us as human beings. Youth, sexuality, financial acumen, height, weight, etc. are all just facets of the diamond.
The kind of people who love the boob thread won't understand how it perpetuates misery. It separates out one tiny facet of a human being and sees only the facet, not the rest of the human being it came from. Little girls are taught that their value is in the facet, not in their totality. Little boys are taught the same. It is so very, very sad. Justify it however you want, the end result is the same.
The comparing mind is rampant and our society specializes in shaming all of us into thinking we aren't "good enough" at something. That's how control is maintained. Control is all about power. That is why Jan says this is all about power. She is right.
I know you don't want to see this. It is ok with me. I am not attached to changing anyone who doesn't want to be changed. But the thread asked Ladies to comment and I am female, so here you are.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2013 - 02:36am PT
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Good post Daphne.
I'm surprised that the conversation has stayed pretty much in tact, and for the most part civil.
Thanks.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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May 14, 2013 - 02:48am PT
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Outstanding posts, Jan and Daphne,,,absolutely stellar!
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Climber Joe
Trad climber
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May 14, 2013 - 02:48am PT
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Jan,
Your dated cultural stereotyping in the fisticuffs thread was merely annoying. Here, you blame all kinds of specific crimes done to women on an intolerably vague "objectification" of them. From your use of the jargon, I'm guessing that you have some familiarity with the social sciences. Which means you do know that the causal connection you speak of is not unanimously or widely accepted, but held sacrosanct (I use the term deliberately) by a vocal minority. I suppose you would be a big fan of Iceland, for example--one of the most sexually liberal societies in the world, but at the same time prohibiting any form of porn because it is seen to "objectify" women.
You frequently mention how you see / judge "American" attitudes from an "international" perspective. Well, most of us have read the novel 1984 in high school. The kind of wholesale-conclusion-backed-by-sloppy-science that I see in your posts (as well as the paradoxical situation in Iceland), is waaaay too Orwellian for my liking. It scares me not least because the natural implication of your pronouncements is that limits should be placed not only on people's behavior, but also speech, and even thought. Now That really is all about power, as you have been fond of pointing out.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 14, 2013 - 06:40am PT
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The whole thing is way overblown. Jan is full of sh#t simply because she compares chest shots to crotch shots. If the girls had a thread going with a bunch of bare chested men no one would care. if they did care they have too much time on their hands. typical internet Bs compareing chest shots to crotch shots like it is a fact.. If anyone left this site over the boob thread they obviously have issues.
lots of reasons to leave this site.
Personal attacks
polotical BS
weak self serving people reporting other people to admin with the hopes they get banned.
stupid annoying people.
a waste of your time
whatever. leaveing because you are offended by the unclothed human body is pretty messed up.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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May 14, 2013 - 07:47am PT
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Women were asked their views and I gave mine. Suddenly I am being accused of being full of sh#t, doing dated cultural stereotyping, having sacrosanct (as in religious) views, being a fan of Iceland, practicing sloppy social science, and being Orwellian. I'm sure glad nobody else here but me is stereotyping!
This begs another question. When tradmanclimbs says that women's boobs and men's chests as equivalent, does this demonstrate the new politically correct avoidance of stereotyping?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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May 14, 2013 - 08:03am PT
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Interesting controversy over womens breast...Brings to mind the Moody Blues line...And we decide what is right...See what you started Anastasia...!
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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May 14, 2013 - 08:27am PT
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Absence of pictures does not seem like it will fix the underlying issues.
I know a guy fixes this cheaply and securely. He's "made" and he's
"sancrosact."
"Hey, say, George, didn't we go thru this scene about thirty years ago?"
"Yes, we did. It's built into these types. It's ALL GOOD. Lots of room for everybody if they are reasonable.
Say goodnight, Vanessa."
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splitter
Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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May 14, 2013 - 10:26am PT
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sullly - Until the guy can rival John Long in writing ability, or Russ W, in humor, stop hogging the boards.
Yes, John definitely has a way with words, concise and to the point...
Largo - "I'll take a crack at those questions later. Right now I'm doing some work under the master"...
and, from the 1st boob thread. not sure what John was extrapolating on here, since the post contained no caption other than 'Petunia'. perhaps 'a picture says a thousand words' ...dunno, i'm still scratching my head.
And I concur, Russ W can be funnier than chit...
i never did take the time to check out Moosedrools boob thread, nor any of his threads for that matter so not exactly sure what all the controversy is about. he is rehab'ing something, so perhaps once he is well, he'll post less (didn't realize he was posting a lot). and there is no question that he, like myself, ain't ever gonna come anywhere near Largo, in regards to writing. so i guess we're both chit outta luck in that dept. but he did say some pretty off the wall things on occasion, that i would never even dream of, that not only made me laugh and brightened up my day, but told me that he did have a unique sense of humor that is, at times, sorely needed and missing here on ST!
i also appreciate JL & RW's contributions. otherwise, not saying anything else by posting some of their stuff, other than what i pointed out earlier this evening/late last night on "LL LL" new thread, that there seems to be a double standard here on the Taco at times!
btw, i can't let Cragman off the hook here, although it pains me to post this pic again. imo, it shudda never happened. i think it alone was good enough reason to stay away from the boob threads. not sure what point he was making, but he does seem to be rather fond of this gal for some reason. from the 1st boob thread (and elsewhere)...
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Climber Joe
Trad climber
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May 14, 2013 - 10:32am PT
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No, Jan. I was just giving my opinion, which is mostly a criticism of your opinions. Of course you are free to defend your opinions. I say discussion because, believe it or not, I don't think this is just a crazy shouting match: participants learn new things, and some even change their minds. This is what I don't like about simply calling it all about power: it implies that discussion is useless. The same thing with stepping outside the immediate points of contention and complaining about how one is being attacked. You don't like having your opinions be called Orwellian? Then need I remind you the proper response is to figure out what basis I have for the charge, and then refute it? Is this interchange all about power? I don't believe so. There is power involved in everything, but I don't have an admin password. Regardless, I don't see how that would affect the discussion either way.
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hillrat
Trad climber
reno, nv
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May 14, 2013 - 10:48am PT
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Huh, see? Average naked people dont make the grade.
Just as a thought, we dont much celebrate average climbing, or other average achievements in life for that matter. How often do people get blasted for posting their successful climb of some 40ft 5.6? Its commonly judgemental on the forums, and that in itself is the unfortunate thing. Once you accept that and move past it, the place is interesting.
I tell you though, that aspect has changed my approach to the place.
Problem with the boob thread, and naked people in general, is the sexual context. Anything else could, on a scale of insult rating, rank higher than most of the pictures posted, and it would be left alone. But naked bodies carry more weight, they imply things like power, control, and objectification that simple commentary like "you,re an idiotic moran who should never post your drivel to this forum again you literary-challenged shrivel-d$ck aŁ˘hole" just doesnt compete with.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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May 14, 2013 - 11:04am PT
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you boob thread haters are morally superior than most. we get it
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hillrat
Trad climber
reno, nv
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May 14, 2013 - 11:05am PT
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More likely, after the slideshow guys are showing their personal climbing photos to each other on the smartphone, and a couple worthy boob shots thrown in for good measure.
Meanwhile, the ladies compare husbands in terms of which ones make six figures, do their own laundry, remembered flowers on mothers day, bitched about the mother-in-law visiting, or just sit and drink beer while the games on, or go climb too much instead of watching the kids and cooking dinner.
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