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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Feb 13, 2013 - 02:13pm PT
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Ummmm.....
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Feb 13, 2013 - 02:17pm PT
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(1) Anyone here reminded of LA Confidential?
(2) Anyone here read the transcript? I read half of it last night. Pretty thought and feeling provoking. Insofar as you're inclined to believe him, it's pretty sad.
I hope a host of investigative journalists dig into this.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Feb 13, 2013 - 02:19pm PT
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Dingus, you are not the climber holed up at Donnell's standing off the Tuolumne County sheriffs, are you? Oh, my mistake, Big Bear is in southern California. ;-)
High Fructose, I have read several different (though similar) transcripts of Dorner's manifesto.
He may have made some good points, but shooting innocent people is NOT a good point.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 13, 2013 - 02:26pm PT
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Anderson, Sometimes you say some crazy sheeit.;)
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Feb 13, 2013 - 02:44pm PT
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"Ron posted online here that he had talked to LAPD buddies, who told him that all the LAPD cops had decided that they would not take him alive."
And you believed that sh#t?
That's why you're a good Republican.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Feb 13, 2013 - 03:08pm PT
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I always wanted one of those things when I was a kid.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Feb 13, 2013 - 03:57pm PT
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On the one hand it does look a little like the San Bernardino County Sheriffs might have decided to torch the place with him in it. But, LAPD or any other cops saying they're not going to take the guy alive is a far cry from conspiracy to murder. If the cops were convinced, by his actions, that Dorner had every intention of shooting it out to the end, then it was a simple observation of what would likely be the outcome.
I'm always in favor of taking these types alive but that's not the usual outcome in a scene like this.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Feb 13, 2013 - 05:04pm PT
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Hey...what happened to my embedded YouTube Pocket Fisherman ad?
Am I about to be nuked?
Am I still here?
Somebody talk to me!
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Feb 13, 2013 - 05:20pm PT
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Phew. I thought for sure I was a goner. My whole ST life flashed before my eyes! (It really wasn't very interesting.)
Must be some copyright protection on that ad. Maybe the link to YouTube will be safe...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh4fl_w-dMs
It's worth a watch, if only for the classic 70's star-studded booty at the beginning...
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Feb 13, 2013 - 07:37pm PT
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I can tell you this - insofar as the father purposefully shortchanged Dorner, he's feeling it today and he'll feel it the rest of his life. Taking out a family member is more effective - vengeance-wise - than taking out the corrupt perp who then wouldn't feel anything as he would be dead. Right?
It is almost like watching 'Django Unchained' in real life."
"Cop gains sympathizers on social media."
http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/13/us/lapd-dorner-fans/
Truth be told, 100,000 years ago, if you cheated or told lies in your extended family or tribe, you were ostracized. Which often meant death. This is no longer the case today. Corrupt people (liars and cheats) get exposed today, what happens? They move to a different neighborhood or town. Their behavior continues. Unchecked. No penality or punishment. You kid yourselves, you pollyannish honest folks, you soft hearted folks, if you don't think norms that favor cheaters and liars aren't being propagated in our modern world. It is a predicament.
What happened? Dorner took revenge. In turn, the Leviathan took its tit for tat. Reminds me a bit of the rape and murder discussion (re: Morris's honest response) in the scene in the film, Ides of March.
Life lesson: Kids don't let your parents grow up to be liars and cheats. It might have blowback on the next generation.
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Dick Erb
climber
June Lake, CA
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Feb 13, 2013 - 07:53pm PT
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Truth be told, 100,000 years ago,
???
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Feb 13, 2013 - 08:00pm PT
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Ron, I appear to have mistakenly attributed a quote to you regarding LAPD deputies.
I apologize.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Feb 13, 2013 - 08:17pm PT
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I don't see much good to be had expending any effort to take this guy alive. I see plenty more negatives in the ledger if attempted.
Terrorist wanted to die and take a bunch of folks with him. Best to kill him as quickly and safely as possible.
The well known corruption of police forces is a whole nuther matter that I'm glad folks are focusing on.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 13, 2013 - 08:18pm PT
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He could have taken out alot more people
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Feb 13, 2013 - 08:42pm PT
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I'm glad it's over. The shootout took place 3 miles from the camp where my son is with all his 5th grade classmates. All the parents around here were FREAKIN'!
They kept it from the kids, they are just far enough so that no one could hear the shooting and the science camp curriculum was uninterrupted, except for the lockdown.
WHEW!
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Feb 13, 2013 - 08:53pm PT
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Nice, DE! Good to hear.
I don't see much good to be had expending any effort to take this guy alive.
When a well coordinated competent police force has a guy ike this surrounded, trapped, why should they not just wait him out? If he kills himself that is out of their control and everyone can be free of guilt. Radio transcripts now reveal that the San Bernardino Sheriffs decided to start the burn. It was their plan. We are supposed to be a nation of laws, but whatever...
Terrorist wanted to die and take a bunch of folks with him
This is just backwards. The shooting at Ft. Hood is officially termed "workplace violence" - a decision which deprives the dead and survivors of Purple Heart medals, and the families and survivors of the benefits of being wounded in combat - all while the shooter chose as his targets a rooom full of troops en route to Afghanistan and yelled "Allah Ahkbar" as he commenced fire. That was terrorism. Dorner was no terrorist. That's workplace violence. Or just mayhem.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Feb 13, 2013 - 10:07pm PT
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http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/13/us/lapd-manhunt/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
Audio from a Los Angeles television station captured the sound of someone early in the standoff shouting, "Burn it down ... burn that goddamn house down. Burn it down." It's not clear who used those words.
But the order to use smoke canisters -- "burners" -- didn't come for another two hours, according to San Bernardino County sheriff's radio traffic.
"Seven burners deployed, and we have a fire," one officer reported at 4:16 p.m. (7:16 p.m. ET).
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Feb 13, 2013 - 10:11pm PT
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Terrorist wanted to die and take a bunch of folks with him. Best to kill him as quickly and safely as possible.
How do you know he was a terrorist?
How do you know if it was even Dorner?
If it was Dorner, how do you know he did what they say he did.
If it is so easy to "know" that people are guilty and should be killed why have a court system?
If I think that you killed someone and are dangerous, should I just firebomb your house and try to burn you alive?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Feb 13, 2013 - 10:11pm PT
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He had many chances to surrender, and go to jail
He decided he would fight it out, and death was the only option in the end
All I'm sayin' is you can't learn much from dead man.
Of course the guy both deserved and begged to be killed. That is not my point. Once a suspect is trapped it is not the police's job to execute a sentence. Jeez, I thought you were the bleeding heart liberal here..;-)
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Feb 13, 2013 - 10:20pm PT
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All I'm sayin' is you can't learn much from dead man.
That's a good motive for the LAPD wanting him dead in addition to just getting revenge. I don't think they wanted him to be captured alive. The trial and jailhouse interviews would have been embarrassing.
Dorner may have had his own reasons for not being captured. He could have set the fire himself. That's what I thought in the beginning, but the more about this I read, the fire was started by police incendiary devices, and they expected it to burn.
I hope there is a full arson and forensic investigation by an independent agency, such as the FBI.
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