Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
|
|
|
Feb 13, 2013 - 08:53pm PT
|
John M, it was the "christian" thing to do... something Christ would never stand for.
"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Matthew 19:24
If the Catholic Crutch and Moron Church were corporations, they would be among the richest in the world.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Feb 13, 2013 - 09:03pm PT
|
I don't have a hatred of religion as some people do. I was raised in the Baptist church and my father was an elder in the church. I doubt that there is anyone in a Christian religion who went to church more then my family did and still does, excluding me. I have seen the good that organized religion can do. And the bad. I still believe that there are good people within the Catholic religion. I have no doubt that seamstress is a good person.
But when the Vatican forced the local parishes to pay for a problem they created, and then elected a Pope who helped create the problem, I lost any respect I had for the church itself. Are their good people in the church? I believe so. But that isn't good enough.
|
|
Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
|
|
|
Feb 13, 2013 - 09:03pm PT
|
Weird..don't old Popes usually hang on by their fingernails until they pull the pointy hat from their cold dead hands..literally
 my understanding, or what I've heard…. It's been close to 600 years since anything like this has happened…
Not that I care much…. the whole lot could go away and the world might be a little better (safer for those who are in Africa at the very least).
|
|
ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
|
|
|
Feb 13, 2013 - 09:09pm PT
|
What do you mean "if?"
Those two churches serve the christian market for God Inc.
Look, I have no problem with people who have faith. Some of my close friends (actually, this includes my best and oldest friend), have a deep "faith-based" relationship with god. It is not my thing, but it works for them and that is cool. I do have a huge issue with many religions that preach and hold their members accountable to a standard that the church leadership wantonly disregards. I also have a huge issue with people that willingly continue to support and apologize for corrupt organizations. In the process, the apologists become complicit in the crimes that the organization is committing.
|
|
mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2013 - 08:29pm PT
|
You can take your prophecies and shove them up your a*#.
|
|
Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2013 - 08:52pm PT
|
Was unaware that I was a complicit pedophile, thank you so much for alerting me to that. Thought I reported a pedophile 35 years ago (work not church related). But apparently the fact that I am a practicing catholic that still sees many good works makes me a complicit pedophile.
Institutions and people are never close to perfect and full of flaws. Pedophilia is a horrible crime. I am objecting to condeming all. Yes I know that there have been pedophiles as priests, ministers, teachers, coaches, boy scout leaders, politicians, many occupations and walks of life. They should be brought to justice. Yet I have committed no act that makes me complicit in any of that activity. And I want to see the church continue, clean from that past. Perhaps you feel that the doors of all catholic churches, schools, and charities from each parish, diocese to the vatican should be shuttered and sold for reparations. Catholicism will survive, rich or poor. It has survived many awful times and unholy events. The power does not lie in the gold in Rome.
I have no issue with a frank discussion of how the problem should be handled. Apparently some do not want to consider identifying many root causes for the internal struggle with the issue. I offered that there may be more causes than greed. Thus I have been called an excuser and a complicit pedophile. I think the many root causes are important. That same root cause, if not dealt with, can have other bad consequences. Eliminate greed from the equation, that doesn't mean that the path will always be correct. The same issues about separation of church and state, the proclivity to believe in repentence and redemption, etc. will still be there. Perhaps the secular world only cares about preist pedophilia. What about pedophiles that are not priests that "confess" this to their priest? What about other crimes? Those are all questions that can provoke a very thoughtful discussion of how religious institutions fit into the world. What about the responsibilities of a lawyer working with a pedophile? This is not an attempt to deflect or minimize what has happened.
Complicit pedophile heading home for Valentine's Day. Cue to begin more stone throwing at all catholic house.
|
|
Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2013 - 08:56pm PT
|
They need to get this Pope guy on Dr. Phil or Larry King Live.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2013 - 09:04pm PT
|
People are upset Seamstress. They tend to lash out when they are upset. You expect them to be perfect, yet you are willing to forgive your church.
You didn't answer my question. I will repost it.
Your wrote... The practices within our church have changed radically in the last 10 years. Anyone who has any contact with a child for church activities must undergo a background check and attend safe training. That doesn't erase sins of the past, but it is action to prevent sins in the future. end quote..
How exactly does this stop pedophile priests who are sanctioned by the church? The fox is guarding the henhouse. You have done nothing about the fox. You have a serious problem which you haven't addressed yet. The pope is a prime example. He helped create the the system of hiding pedophiles.
|
|
ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
|
|
|
Feb 15, 2013 - 03:29pm PT
|
You continue to dance around the issue. The church, from the very top down, helps pedophiles to escape prosecution. The put know pedophiles in positions where they are exposed to children. This is church policy, and is done on a regular basis. You know this and you STILL give money to this church. You, therefore are complicit in their crimes.
If the church was actively working to separate pedophiles from children and prosecute them, then I might be able to see your willingness to stay in the church. Sadly, the church has done nothing to bring know pedophile priest to justice and made only a weak attempt to protect children. Again, the culture of the priesthood, from the top down, tacitly approves of pedophilia and refuses to do what it needed to eradicate it from the church.
All the "good works" in the world do not wash away the evil stain of pedophilia. You argue that the churches good works need to be considered. I feel that, when an organization makes it their policy to harbor and enable men who rape boys, its is corrupt at its core. I would not belong to a church or any organization that did this. You feel differently, remain a member, and therefore support pedophiles.
|
|
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
|
|
Feb 15, 2013 - 04:04pm PT
|
I like your logic. Are you a Jesuit? :)
|
|
ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
|
|
|
Feb 15, 2013 - 04:57pm PT
|
Nice! ;)
|
|
eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
|
|
|
Feb 15, 2013 - 06:41pm PT
|
The biggest wins you can achieve in this world.
1. Being voted President of the United States.
2. Being elected Pope.
3. Being considered soccer's best player.
4. Having Beyonce dump her husband for you.
5. Being a rock climber.
|
|
shakin' man
Trad climber
california
|
|
|
Feb 15, 2013 - 11:13pm PT
|
The church has lost all credibility IMHO. Seriously, robbing from the Cemetery fund to pay claims and now the following letter. I annotated it and I also love the "continues to be some confusion". Are you delirious Mr.Gomez?, I am not confused about this evil mortal man Mr. Mahony whatsoever.
Send him back to Rome, he can stay there.
|
|
Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
|
|
|
Feb 16, 2013 - 03:49pm PT
|
Why don't I "carry water" for Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, Episcopalians, you ask Dingus??
Those affiliations may need a few sprinkles soon...as statistics from insurance companies indicate sex abuse is greater in Protestant and Jewish worship houses than within the cubicles and antechambers of Catholocism...
...and much, much higher in public schools!
True pedophilia occurs most often within families. And the most common perpetrators are married laymen and non-affiliated males.
But how statisfying it is to shoot down the "holier than thou"...and represent them as the most unrelenting child abusers.
And with due respect to your righteous anger regarding sex abuse cover-ups, Ncrockclimber...Seamstress is NOT supporting pedophilia because she remains a member and strives for reform in an institution that does much good and has made great headway in cleaning house.
This discussion has been comparitively civil, I suppose. Yesterday, I detained myself in a similar internet dialogue with dozens of profanity spewing posters seizing upon every theatric of projection to convey their own misbehaviors and dereliction onto the Papacy. And, Benedict, meek and academic, with that sheepish smile, is the pattern dupe.
|
|
mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
|
|
|
Feb 16, 2013 - 04:39pm PT
|
True pedophilia occurs most often within families. And the most common perpetrators are married laymen and non-affiliated males.
And that has NOTHING to do with the fact that top authorities actively protected and hid pedophiles within the Crutch. Would have the same response if we were talking about Disneyland officials rather than a christian church? I seriously doubt it.
|
|
Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 16, 2013 - 04:45pm PT
|
Sinners are Sinners were all Sinners at all levels.
Some things are tarnished and can never be polished
Change will come but the pain will never go away for some.
|
|
mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
|
|
|
Feb 16, 2013 - 04:49pm PT
|
Sinners are Sinners were all Sinners at all levels.
Speak for yourself. I've never raped, molested, or murdered anyone... or sinned anywhere close to that level.
|
|
Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 16, 2013 - 05:04pm PT
|
I am not condoning any actions. And I meant that people in high places also sin not that all sins are equal
Religion is dead to me as I was not born with it but we are still all sinners.
What is more powerful religion or humanity?
The royal church crap has gone on for 2 long and it will tumble to a lower worth for those who do follow.
"ELEVEN AMERICANS will be among the 117 cardinals of the Catholic Church heading soon to Rome to select the next pope. One of them, Cardinal Roger M. Mahony, for a quarter-century the archbishop of Los Angeles, is lucky not to be in prison, for there is no dispute that he orchestrated what amounted to a cover-up of clerical sexual abuse in Los Angeles."
Disgusting and not so surprising how Benedicto got voted in.
I dont think the Dalai Lama resigned when he left Tibet.
He is not as fun to follow on Twitter as the Pope.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!