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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Steve's definitely stirred up a shitstorm here.
Some informed perspectives on the specific situation and subject in general.
No shortage of the usual diatribe and odious invective either.
I've left fixed ropes on climbs and there's some that have been hanging for way too long and amount to crag litter. Very few of us who are at all active have avoided crossing the line in terms of what's reasonable or appropriate. Most of us don't like the look of fixed ropes left too long or abandoned.
It can be argued that to some degree, it does matter where the ropes are, who they belong to and their purpose. It doesn't require an unreasonable level of acuity to infer from observation why a rope may be fixed somewhere, whether it's appropriate or if it may have overstayed it's welcome.
Additionally, any equipment left on a climb is unfortunately, open game to whoever chooses to liberate it for whatever reason as there's no honor amongst thieves.
In this case, an adaptation of of an old adage may be apt; "hell hath no fury like climbers scorned."
Regardless of why the ropes were up or how long they were there, they were fair game for the unscrupulous or vindictive.
Steve made an easy target of himself merely raising the issue, especially here and in the context of his history. Many of us accepted Steve's act of contrition for WOS as sincere and evidence of his generally good character. As many of us know, making such amends whether accepted or not, doesn't remove the blight of past misdeeds but merely situate such events in our narratives in a manner that allows us to move forward.
If we don't like someone's fixed ropes, some options are;
Ask them to take them down,
Take them down, keep them and let the owners worry about what may have happened to them,
Take them down ourselves and sh#t on them,
Take them down ourselves and let the owners know where to find them,
Leave the ropes be and find something more important to worry about.
Steve, I wouldn't sweat a 100 meters of snarf low stretch rope.
Consider the context and be careful with your fixed ropes and how you react if someone has a problem with them or they go missing.
Respect,
PB
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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I was really intending to back away off on this thread, but I just had to take one more peek, and I see something that I just cannot help responding to.
Steve Schneider says:
since i was actively searching for partners for this route on this forum, i think that kind of identifies the ropes as mine, so i don't see why i should be leaving a note on the rock identifying mine.
So Steve thinks that if you climb it is your responsibility to not only read this forum, but also all of Steve's posts and threads?
Is it just me, or does this strike anyone else as presumptuous?
I read Supertopo much more than I should and I don't have time to read more than a small fraction of the threads.
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Barbarian
Trad climber
New and Bionic too!
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Steve,
I choose to look beyond the "how long were those lines hanging there" question.
Personally, I would not have taken your ropes....because they weren't mine. I wish more people thought that way.
I hope you get your stuff back.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Sorry to hear about the $$$ loss, but having had to literally tangle with fixed ropes before, my sympathy is pretty limited. On WFLT bozos had left lines up to Awhanee, and being clipped in top and bottom somehow our bags got all snarled up. I didn't take the line, but I did chuck it off once we finished dealing with the cluster. Sure enough, as I looked back the next day, a different party was putting up ANOTHER set of fixed lines for some bandaloop stupidity. Fricking 3 ring circus...
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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On WFLT bozos had left lines up to Awhanee, and being clipped in top and bottom somehow our bags got all snarled up. I didn't take the line, but I did chuck it off once we finished dealing with the cluster. Sure enough, as I looked back the next day, a different party was putting up ANOTHER set of fixed lines for some bandaloop stupidity. Fricking 3 ring circus...
Well as long as guys like you keep taking it up the a*# and keep smiling at the 'bozos' that fix several sets of lines on the same climb it will keep happening. Enjoy. If you had a penis maybe you would speak up about this inconvenience you had.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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It appears to me that climbing permits are just around the corner, climber self conduct or policing is just not possible anymore. Too mainstream.
Chez, you just may well be correct on that matter.
One reason I 'quit' the Valley back in 1977, was because some of the BS that was going on, and continued. Egos, stuff being stolen, name calling. The camaraderie was slowing draining away. Sad.
EDIT
Thread drift
Wallyvirginia, how in the world did Beckham's name get involved in this thread? Oh, I get it.
because he scored so many goals for England in the past
But 17 goals in 115 matches for England? From an attacking midfielder/winger? And always taking free kicks and penalties? A bit short if you ask me. He is overrated. But he has had good advice, and turned his image into millions. World Class? Not a chance. A very good international, yeah I'll go along with that. A good deadball expert, but Ian Harte scored more from deadballs (percentage wise) than Beckham has/did, just for example.
On Beckham: "He cannot kick with his left foot, he cannot head a ball, he cannot tackle and he doesn't score many goals. Apart from that he's all right." George Best, a flawed genius
He and his keepers have been very good, no make that extremely good at promoting him, but he never was and never will be world class. Fair play to him though, he has made the utmost of his limited abilities.
And oh yes, go on you Bhoys, qualifying for the knockout stages tonight of the so-called Champions League. Come on Celtic. (Dream final: Barcelona versus Celtic. Well, I did say dream.)
Now back to the News at Nine.
"And in the climbing world, there is a debate going on about fixed lines, stealing ropes and general hysteria".
"It appears that not only do ropes get twisted, but some people's knickers as well".
"This is Paddy the Poster reporting live from Ireland, and a disclaimer, I am not a reporter for the Taco Stand".
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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One mans treasure is another mans junk... just don't be treasuring another mans junk, way homo!
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Coz ill give you 100 bucks to not be a dick.
LOL, how about give him 100$ to find out about why he hasn't revealed anything when time frame for his BD ultimatum ran out? That was lulz.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Someone probably saw your shitty conditioned, hard to rap ropes, and pulled them because they were unsafe looking.
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WyoRockMan
Trad climber
Flank of the Bighorns
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Where is the Audio Rant(tm)?
Surely a this deserves one.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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I was reading this thread and thought, 'What a bunch of dicks."
And then I saw this:
Coz ill give you 100 bucks to not be a dick,
and I almost peed.
So I guess I'm one too.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Didn't some guys named Robbins, Pratt, Chouinard and Frost opine 50 years ago that using fixed ropes in Yosemite wasn't good style? And didn't they do their best to live up to their words? And wasn't that the accepted ethos for decades? So what's changed? Apart, that is, from climbers now having a lot more money, knowledge and equipment.
Of course, old farts rarely know anything worth hearing, eh?
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jstan
climber
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I have a confession to make for something I stole fifty years ago. I stole a really nice shirt, a pair of pants, and a balaclava in the Adirondacks. Some one had left them fixed in a garbage pit and I ignored the possibility they were an essential part of a world shaking project. Now I want to allay anyone's feelings that I am totally without principle. I also could have stolen a pair of socks and a set of underwear. Subliminally I must have allowed for the fact my taking those might have resulted in someone dying. The latter are, after all, essential gear.
I am assured the owner of that clothing is out there reading ST. Therefore I want to apologize here for my heinous disregard and to make a request. i just want you to know that was my favourite shirt for more than ten years. I still have its remains in my nostalgia drawer and will return it if you would like.
If you decide to fix another shirt please make it of the same tartan and size.
Thank you,
Edit:
On another matter along these lines.
In our efforts to clean up an area that climbers use in JT I am storing some items that were located near the East edge. I need to get them back to their owners. If anyone here knows someone who used the area and had stuff on the East side could you ask them to get in touch with me. Appreciate it.
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scuffy b
climber
heading slowly NNW
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Hey Patrick, as long as you're quoting Georgie Best, here's a good one from
back when he was still playing (and a player):
"If I'd been born ugly, the world would never have heard of Pele."
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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I'm truly concern for SS and his rant, really seems absurd.
The post and it's threatening bad karma and criminal prosecution hit me the wrong way. But I think you nail it in calling it a rant When you think about like that, it really isn't absurd.
If I drove down to the Valley just to take down my ropes and found the ropes gone (no ropes for next project) and my trip wasted (waste of gas, waste of time)I would be angry also and might be doing some ranting of my own, and it could be just as "bad" or worse than anything Steve said.
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Mighty Hiker....Didn't someone named Warren Harding, a climber equally as well known as Robbins, Pratt et.al. put up the first serious climb on the Captain, by far the most well known climb in the world using fixed gear of all sorts, fueling the ethos debate still raging today? Surely your old enough to remember him. I am equally humbled by both Robbins and Harding....
And only Steve Schneider knows his Karmic score: How much good or bad he's done collectively in his life and thus non of us may judge his Karma nor can we judge others'.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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If I drove down to the Valley just to take down my ropes and found the ropes gone (no ropes for next project) and my trip wasted (waste of gas, waste of time)I would be angry also and might be doing some ranting of my own, and it could be just as "bad" or worse than anything Steve said.
What? Sanity and Balance is taking hold on this thread?! The Mayan are right! The transformation of the world is at hand
Peace
karl
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slobmonster
Trad climber
OAK (nee NH)
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Steve, my former neighbor and generally good guy and someone I would consider a friend,
Do yourself a favor and delete this thread. Seriously. I don't want to have to visit you in prison.
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