Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Sep 30, 2012 - 09:44pm PT
|
Glad you made it out with relatively little damage.
a few comments, some general and not particularly aimed at the specific situation.
As neophytes back in the day we were armed only with Mr. Wilt's terse one paragraph descriptions that presupposed the ability to recognize tree varieties by their Latin names. Getting lost was an ever present possibility. Approaches were punctuated at every clearing that offered a view of the days agenda with a stop and discussion of where the route really went. You got really good at not only route finding, but knowing when you were in over your head and didn't often commit to irreversible moves without a level of certainty about where you were going to end up.
The change really started with the advent of the topo and dependence on it. Topos on a peak as complex as Tahquitz will not only be often inaccurate, but always open to misinterpretation. This is particularly true of the easier routes. With the harder routes there's only one way possible and it's relatively obvious. With the easier routes there may be plausible deviations that lead to dead ends or much harder / unprotected climbing. Sahara Terror, (probably responsible for more epics than any other climb there) or the often missed traverse on Fingertrip come to mind. The mysteries are gone but the chance to really f*#k it up have been perhaps enhanced.
Taquitz is an ALPINE crag! Don't let the proximity of town fool ya!
Self sufficiency levels should meet that standard.
Trails,
you can blame the new North Side trail on me. The impetuous for that was carrying Woody down the Lunch Rock trail with a busted ankle and the realization that there was no way in hell anyone was going to be able to self evacuate with much of an injury at all down the talus on the North side. There was also the secondary purpose of eliminating the multiple erosion scars and trail braiding that was becoming evident. I've had enough of giving piggyback rides.
The guidebooks are written in exquisite detail, the thundering herd is here and so are the cell phones and radios. Nothing is going to turn back the clock on that.
One community effort that is needed is getting the Stokes baskets back at Tahquitz and an additional one over on the North side. Get a hold of me or Jim or anyone else involved with ICA if you can help out on that.
I have the tools and skills to patch up some beater baskets if someone knows of an agency that has some they want to dump.
|
|
apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
|
"The guidebooks are written in exquisite detail, the thundering herd is here and so are the cell phones and radios. Nothing is going to turn back the clock on that."
For all the whinging and monday morning greybeard quarterbacking that can go on here, that's a simple, realistic fact.
|
|
anneke
Trad climber
Monterey, CA
|
|
I am on a SAR team (Monterey County), and as the subject of this rescue pointed out, things like this are what we train for. We enjoy the work, otherwise we wouldn't do it. In a situation like this, especially, where a mistake gets made and the consequences are pretty dire, we're very happy to help. Of course, there's the odd situation (getting more and more common what with SPOT devices, cell phones, and GPSs that lead to poor navigation skills) when people get lost and call for help when they really don't need it. All too often, we head off into the night searching for someone who subsequently manages to walk out on their own--and never even bothers to let us know. THAT is annoying. Helping someone in true need? That's what we're here for.
As for you macho guys who say people who take up climbing should fend for themselves even they do get hurt--if you ever find yourself in a situation where you need help, I bet you'll appreciate it. Don't be so arrogant. Not everybody's as (for want of a better word) gutsy as you. Don't prejudge a situation when you know nothing about the people involved.
Read Dave's post to learn a thing or two about humility and gratitude.
|
|
eddiesef
Trad climber
san clemente
|
|
Angel fright is such an obvious line, how does a person get lost?
|
|
YT
Trad climber
Alhambra, CA
|
|
I was there at Lunch ledge when the accident happened. By the time we summit, my partner BL, heard the commotion that the victim passed out. We supplied the rescue team the SCMA heavy litter chained to the tree below lunch rock. But thankfully, SAR has their own light weight titanium litter. The picture of the 16 able body young men on their way to the rescue mission was taken as I was going to leave Humber Park. I admired the SAR team for what they do. This photo serves the purpose of gratitude and good will to the father Dave and his wonderful two sons. Speedy recovery!
|
|
apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
|
"We supplied the rescue team the SCMA heavy litter chained to the tree below lunch rock. "
At the risk of thread-drift, I've always wondered why the SCMA chains their litter (and other accoutrement) to that tree. Seems odd...the only people that can use it (w/o cutting the chain) are SCMA participants/outings?
|
|
Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
Times are different, if someone is in trouble in the mountains you'd better go help them, or you're nothing more than an animal seeking its own reward.
Way too many variables there to be conclusive with that statement.
I'm glad everybody is safe as well.
Man, I miss California!
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
And will somebody 'splain to me why those guys are wearing those astronaut
suits to hike up a trail in 90 degrees? And in case any lawyers are tempted
to 'splain me you can STFU.
|
|
apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
|
If I'm not mistaken, those are CalFire folks...they've been doing most of the responses lately..they are 'multi-taskers' of sorts...
|
|
looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
|
|
Thanks for posting Dave, and I am glad to hear that you are doing well.
The fact that you and your kids got off the climb by yourselves shows a lot of self reliance and saved everyone a lot of time and effort. It also appears that you were prepared to descend to the parking lot on your own, but were instructed to do otherwise. It is unclear what more you could have done.
I'm unsure why there has been so much criticism of the availability of SAR. Tahquitz may be an "Alpine" crag, but it also a few hours from a population of over 22 Million people, has easy access and is loaded with high quality routes at all grades. That it attracts an increasing number of climbers -- and that with more climbers there are more mishaps -- should be no mystery.
I'm glad that SAR is available for these crags, and am always happy when a "rescue" has a good outcome -- like this one.
We've all made mistakes while climbing. Fortunately, these rarely have resulted in serious consequences. But, just because most of us have been lucky, doesn't mean we should not be charitable to those who were not.
R Vogel
|
|
SammO
Social climber
Ohio
|
|
Donini must define his epic with Malcolm in a different category, or was he writing facetiously? Perhaps only serious climbers, attempting Important New routes, qualify for special rescue efforts?
Touchy realm here, confusing personal responsibility with Deserving Status as a participant in a Worthy Arcane Ritual. Maybe Freemasons get first dibs on the lifeboats?
First, as a poverty-stricken climber, I still maintained at least a major medical policy thru my most risk-prone decade. I especially resent even middle-aged climbers who fail to fulfill even this most basic of social contracts, spewing anti-social rhetoric until obliged to beg and plead for financial aid when they finally deck out. Personal responsibility MIA in these situations. Does guyman believe that medical insurance weakens you? Is this Aynn Rand goes climbin? Then, you take offense that someone calls you on this, saying "YOU don't think we should talk about accidents?" when actually you basically dissed anyone by virtue of their having an accident - how was you post in any way insightful? Must we all go back in time to join you in your campfire think tank when you solved the Riddle of all Accidents?
Second, noone who spends hundreds of days outdoors is immune to the vagaries of weather, rockfall, just basic coincidences, and the like; polished skillsets reduce risks, but climbers stubbornly then usually just up the ante on harder, longer, more hazardous things (ref: Donini & Malcolm).
Variants on outdoor rescue insurance are widely available, although not nearly universal in coverage; still, where it exists, it is a ridiculous bargain, and you may be both a jerk and a fool to not use it. See emkn0t's post for more examples.
Third, the reality in most areas is that vast majorities of accidents happen to non-climbers, and SARs primarily exist for them, outside the rarified example of Yosemite. A couple years ago, the same guy was evaced twice within a week in RMNP, with like a sprained ankle as the worst incident? Few climbers would be willing to suffer the embarrassment this hiker was immune to.
Again outside the Valley, most SARs deal with non-technical, mundane, ugly, foul-weather middle-of-the-night lost kid searches and the like, many times ending as body recoveries; beyond the 'copter charges, most are volunteer units, with all levels of training. Pay = zero, and you buy gas, equipment, clothes, etc. for the privilege. The majority of climbers never consider joining, because of the time and effort that could be used to bolt their latest project instead, and it is often fashionable to rag on how slow and retarded the SARs nerds were on such-and-such a mission. The fact is their methods have evolved, over decades, with a mission priority to "first do no harm" - to the victim, and their rescue personnel, and when an accident is serious, I'd take them over a disorganized, panicked, uncertain bunch of climbers with 5.12 resumes who cannot assess or deal with life-threatening injuries.
If the actual numbers of evacs have escalated at Tahquitz, or elsewhere, a) it is more likely a function of changes in early introduction to climbing as a simple, cool indoor recreation, versus a scouting adventure; b) how exactly would anyone be better off, should all SARs services suddenly vanish? Will this magically make all the accidents go away?
After the later attempts to temper his 'enthusiasm,' perhaps guyman can be forgiven a bit; maybe it's the old teacher in me, but I continue to aspire to post only if I feel I can contribute something to the conversation, versus just ragging to preen myself. The number of folks who seem to live in this virtual world for no other purpose than to denigrate others, or pat themselves on the back, is very disheartening, and provides a learning or sharing opportunity for noone.
|
|
laurel arndt
Trad climber
phoenix
|
|
I had an 25ft lead fall onto a bomber #2 cam this summer in Tahquitz. Tried to finish last 80 feet to top, but no go. Actually tried to get two climbers to aid me off, but they didn't believe I could climb out with a the foot in its condition. Ultimately got a ride on a fellow climbers back up the last 80 ft to summit, BUT still needed heli ride down, killed me to take it. CAL Fire was the bomb AND no charge (my AAC insurance expired).
I have only one observation, if Idyllwild Fire shows up for the ambulance ride down, RUN or rather crawl down the mountain. They are in the money making business, they tried to force meds on me and insisted on calling me a Trauma Level 1 patient which resulted in a $2500 ambulance ride to Palm Springs. I had no cell to call anyone for a ride, I refused oxygen/meds and have been fighting with them over an outrageous bill ever since than.
Last thing you think of is: "what ambulance is my insurance company contracted with?" (by the way ambulances don't contract and that is why they get to charge so much). I'll ask next time.
Lesson learned: .....if I can talk, I can walk.
|
|
klk
Trad climber
cali
|
|
I continue to aspire to post only if I feel I can contribute something to the conversation, versus just ragging to preen myself.
you have clearly failed to appreciate the primary appeal of internet chat rooms.
heh
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!