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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 20, 2012 - 12:11pm PT
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Honestly Karl,, would you have been happier had the group gone up there and caved the dogs head in with a rock in protest over pig farms?
Nah, I'd be happier if the folks worried about the nice dog (and I like dogs) would take a moment and think. "I care about animals. Maybe I won't eat them anymore (or as much or free range...something"
Like you say, Pigs are smart and some studies indicate smarter than dogs. So why not be an equal opportunity hearted person. Just cause pigs taste good it's ok to hurt them far worse than the dog in question here? Science says a pig is about as smart as a three year old human.
http://www.relfe.com/pigs.html
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Science/story?id=771414&page=1#.UDJhWdCe6Ew
If you could talk to the animals, would they have anything to say? New research suggests they might.
Testing the IQ of a sheep may seem laughable. But at the Babraham Institute in Cambridge, England, they know better. One sheep who got a reward every time she recognized a human face correctly on a video screen scored a perfect 50 out of 50.
"If it was a monkey, no one would have any problems, possibly even if it was a dog," said Keith Kendrick, a neurologist at Babraham. "They would say, 'Yeah, yeah, that's expected.' But a sheep, no one really believes."
Pigs, Chickens, Cows
And it's not just sheep.
Hamlet the pig is a computer wiz. He gets a reward every time he uses a joystick designed for a chimp to move a cursor into a blue area on a computer monitor. A Jack Russell terrier couldn't achieve such a task after a year of trying.
In other words, pigs are smarter than dogs.
"They're very curious, and they'll charge off on their own," said John Webster, a professor at the University of Bristol in England. "They will investigate the world with their noses down and batter through like a small boy."
New research shows that chickens can be taught to run the thermostat of the chicken coop, and that even the lowly cow has a surprising inner life.
Cows have been known to form lifelong friendships, and one recent study found that they actually show excitement when they've learned something new "as if they're saying, 'Eureka, I found out how to solve the problem,' " said Donald Broom, a professor at the University of Cambridge....
Peace
karl
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canyoncat
Social climber
SoCal
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Aug 20, 2012 - 12:11pm PT
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Seriously Karl? The only thing no one has thrown in this thread yet, is the holocaust.
This is about a guy who left his PET. Not ate a chicken that wasn't raised free range.
A pet, a companion, a best friend, a buddy. Not his next meal. Now that you have that straight perhaps you'd like to keep on topic, which was the acceptability of such actions and what a more reasonable or thoughtful person might have done?
India indeed. Hmmmph.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 20, 2012 - 12:22pm PT
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Seriously! You think your made up distinctions make for a moral difference?
Just like we can kill many thousands overseas and feel no moral pain about our government and yet if somebody kills a few Americans we want to nuke em?
Maybe the dog wasn't a pet but a working animal like a guard dog? Would that make it OK for the dog to be expendable?
People have always made distinctions in order to justify cruelty on one side while embracing on the other. That why perfectly nice people had black slaves a few hundred years ago
Sorry to spoil fun of "we're so much better than the very evil idiot who left his dog" slander. I dont see as much difference, except that it's more naked when you don't pay someone else to do it
Peace
Karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 20, 2012 - 12:50pm PT
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India was just a little example by the way of how different cultures look at animals differently .
Eating pigs is forbidden by the Bible and Koran and you'll find few Hindus or Buddhist that will eat them either. Jesus never ate pig nor condoned it for others. FWIW
Not trying to browbeat anyone here, except if you claim some kind of animal love, hate the dog leaver, and still chow on a strip of "smarter than dog" every morning without a thought
peace
Karl
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Gorgeous George
Trad climber
Los Angeles, California
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Aug 20, 2012 - 01:11pm PT
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We humans are so quick to judge other humans. Ya, if it had been me I'd of tried harder to get her down, and maybe enlisted the help of others. It must've been pretty hard to leave her behind. We read stories of that happening to people on big mountains all over the world. Sometimes the inability to rescue someone because of conditions forces us to make these decisions. I certainly would not want to stand in the owner's shoes, and wish he had put more forethought in his decision to take her along on such an ambitious climb.
But, I ask myself, is my anger at him and his decision not to go back for her the predominate issue here? Do I truly believe the owner won't learn from his mistake and become a better pet owner because of it.?
And what of the dog? Has anyone considered what she feels, and whether if she was to be reunited with her owner that wouldn't be the most important thing to her? Does she still feel pain for not knowing whether her owner still loves her? Would reuniting her with him bring her full circle back to the life she knew before?
Can those of us pointing the finger (like lemmings) really answer that?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Aug 20, 2012 - 01:23pm PT
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My cousin told me when he was a cadet at West Point, there was at least one female cadet who could pick him up and carry him 50 yards.
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Anastasia
climber
InLOVEwithAris.
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Aug 20, 2012 - 08:36pm PT
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Floride,
No disrespect taken. Everyone has their own ideas and it takes a group of people to come up with something solid. I don't believe a single person can do that by themselves unless they are specially trained, highly experienced and unusually wise. That is for sure not me, maybe I'll get close to that in twenty-five years. Even then it's a big maybe... I for one know that my thoughts are just thoughts. I don't consider myself a moral expert, or that I have the best ideas EVER... I do need to hear what the view is from your corner and everyone else's in order to understand all the points of what is. Only then can I really START to understand and take steps into gaining some wisdom. Thanks for speaking out and especially around me, don't stop.
Anastasia
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Aug 20, 2012 - 08:42pm PT
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This does not sound like a black and white case to me," said Jennifer Edwards, an attorney and founder of the Animal Law Center. "Certainly with the facts that I've read, this is going to be a very emotional and maybe even litigious case."
Now that's a solution. Drag the dog into court and really get it squared away. Sometimes I'm vexed to be an American . . .
JL
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 20, 2012 - 08:53pm PT
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Riley -- "He (Karl) is just asking you to open your mind and see the entire truth. In the long run, if you do, it will save far more dogs than just this one."
See Riley gets it.
It's so simple.
But some of you seem to over anal-analyze everything here.
This is why "Americans and Canadians are stupid" is being broadcasted to you continuously .....
:-)
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Aug 20, 2012 - 09:25pm PT
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Ron anderson. It is good to see that you have helped so many animals. what have you done to help people?
This country is so messed up in part because we care more about animals than we do about people...
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 20, 2012 - 09:34pm PT
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Science says a pig is about as smart as a three year old human.
Now imagine a three year old that weighs between 200 and 600 lb, AND WANTS TO KILL YOU!
MMMMM!
Bacon!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 20, 2012 - 10:21pm PT
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Where do ya'll come down on this one. Just curious how we decide what's what
from the net...
These lions will spend years in these cramped conditions, waiting to be one day killed by a blood thirsty tourist.
There are 5-6000 lions in around 160 of these sick canned hunting farms in South Africa. The lion is put into a larger enclosure where the trophy hunters/thrill killers shoot them for fun.
The people who take part in this are well educated people who come from civilised societies who claim they know right from wrong, yeah right!
So they are raised for this right? (so hunters can go all Dick Cheney on them) and not pets...
Right or rong?
Peace
Karl
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 20, 2012 - 11:35pm PT
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Ron A -- " want me to go on with this? "
Not really.
We already know you're a good guy.
We just want to keep on yankin yer chain ....
:-)
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Aug 20, 2012 - 11:45pm PT
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Ron chill. All Karl is saying is all beings need respect...
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 21, 2012 - 12:14am PT
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Karl. That is pure BS a complete outright propaganda pic if ive ever seen one- you had better do a little more homework before posting that kind of false pics.
Where's your homework that says the picture is bogus. I know for sure right here in this country Dick Cheney shot like 70 ducks in one day that were released just like skeet for shooting.
A search of South Africa and canned Lion Hunting gets TONS of documentation
http://beta.mnet.co.za/carteblanche/Article.aspx?ID=4226
Let's say they usually get more space than the image shows (maybe they were about to be transported there) How do you feel about it
Peace
Karl
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Aug 21, 2012 - 12:16am PT
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reading comprehension would go a long way here.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 21, 2012 - 11:29am PT
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California cows...
Oregon cows...
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Aug 21, 2012 - 11:37am PT
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Caged Macaw
Free Macaw
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