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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Aug 14, 2012 - 10:23am PT
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Lay off of Werner, he did say:
All it takes is a good brain.
Do you have one?
Now we know the answer.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 14, 2012 - 10:38am PT
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Hello, Chris?
Um, we would really like to hear from you, to find out what happened. I would definitely start with the question,
"So why are you on the side of a big wall without ascenders, or the apparent knowledge and ability to use them?"
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pc
climber
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Aug 14, 2012 - 11:21am PT
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^ +1 PtPP.
It is fairly amazing they, a)looked up and still wanted to continue, b)got to the top, looked down and still wanted to continue.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Aug 14, 2012 - 11:58am PT
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It amazes me that they would embark on such a mission without first making sure they could ascend their ropes first. If i were trying this it would be one thing i would make sure to practice!
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Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
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Aug 14, 2012 - 12:01pm PT
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For those saying that they should be charged, I believe that Werner already stated that they had been in the other thread on this.
I seriously doubt that this guy is going to have the balls to show his face in here, especially with the (justified) negative response he got here from the start. Not really much sense in continuing to call the guy out, IMO. If he did show back up, the only thing that is going to happen is 80 pages of people telling him what a dumbass he is.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 14, 2012 - 12:15pm PT
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I wrote Chris on Facebook and asked him to respond here. He seems like a decent sort. It's a tough crowd here at McTopo, but in fairness it seems like the right thing for him to do, after soliciting our advice here and all. He also promised us a trip report.
I told him we wouldn't beat him up ....
... too much.
It takes balls to come on here and admit your mistakes, but plenty have done it, and generally they are respected for 'fessing up, even if what they did wasn't the smartest thing.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Aug 14, 2012 - 12:22pm PT
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If it's a-okay to call someone a moron (cragman), dumbass (many a poster) or as#@&%e (cragman) concerning their actions, then why is it NOT a-okay to call someone a moron, dumbass or as#@&%e concerning their beliefs?
[Click to View YouTube Video]
What a biased righteous bunch (of hypocrites, etc.) we have here.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Aug 14, 2012 - 12:26pm PT
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The difference is similar to criticizing Rodney King because he's black.
Instead of just bagging on him for being a rotten driver.
It's a free country. You can be a bigot, if you want.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Aug 14, 2012 - 12:27pm PT
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the notion that rappelling is anything other than a particularly deadly activity best avoided, is silly
This still seems confusing to me, I don't get it.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 14, 2012 - 12:31pm PT
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So this thread turned into the inevitable pissing match too?
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Aug 14, 2012 - 12:35pm PT
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Reilly, you do or you don't think this story raises all kinds of issues worthy of discussion in the hope of sorting a few out? Personalizing it just makes it real, more interesting and reminds us these are not just theoretical ideas or concerns, they're real world, all of them, as you know.
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crasic
climber
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Aug 14, 2012 - 12:38pm PT
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This still seems confusing to me, I don't get it.
I think he's trying to say that its silly to consider rappelling anything but a deadly activity that is best avoided.
He's basically saying its silly to rappel for fun.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Aug 14, 2012 - 12:39pm PT
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The difference is similar to criticizing Rodney King because he's black
Interesting. I wasn't aware Mr. King chose to be black. Amazing the things you learn on the Taco.
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generationfourth
Trad climber
Arizona
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Aug 14, 2012 - 12:46pm PT
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These guys would've tried to do it anyway regardless of what any of us said. Pointing fingers and trying to burn werner at the stake is pointless.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Aug 14, 2012 - 12:50pm PT
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How was the attempt to rap off El Cap any worse than the much more common woefully unprepared attempts to climb the route? People that can't lead 5.7 and have never done a wall?? The leap-frogging of cams that leads to a few broken ankles and helicopter pluck-offs every season?
I'm sure SAR folks would rather be rescuing someone off El Cap probably more than just about anything else they do. When I was a hotshot and smokejumper I always was stoked for a raging fire, regardless of whether it was started by an idiot or lightening. People don't sign up for that sort of work to sit around hoping nothing happens.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Aug 14, 2012 - 01:23pm PT
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Maybe I'll lose, but I just want to yell "you can't handle the truth" in the Yosemite court.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 14, 2012 - 01:29pm PT
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Werner,
The last time I remember anyone being charged for an El Cap rescue was I believe back in the 80's when an Austrian team was plucked off The Shield headwall in storm, because they lacked the necessary storm protection and were using down for insulation.
Has anyone else been "billed" since then for their rescue?
Is that likely to happen in this instance?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Aug 14, 2012 - 01:48pm PT
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Cragman - I respect your knowledge and experience in SAR, but I have to disagree with your legal analysis. Willfulness is a mental state, ones intent to cause harm. It is not the willful act of rapping El Cap, it is the intent to place someone else in danger. Hell, under your analysis a willful walk up the Mist Trail could be grounds for charges.
Exhibit A for the defense in this case would be this thread. Viewed in its entirety, the conversation could be interpreted as goading the OP into undertaking the "adventure". I enjoy Werners blunt commentary, but I suspect he will temper his future comments. Supertopo bears some responsibility.
Gross negligence could rise to willfulness, but not in this case.
I am amazed that someone could drop off the top of El Cap without a serious second thought about what they were getting into. I want a trip report with an equipment list, surely SAR got an inventory of their "rack"?
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dave goodwin
climber
carson city, nv
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Aug 14, 2012 - 01:54pm PT
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I got billed for being airlifted by YOSAR. I was injured climbing the last pitch and was able to get to the summit on my own. Spent the night on top and then next morning YOSAR airlifted me from the summit of El Cap to Crane Flats, and then transferred to a care flight that took me to Merced.
I got bills from both YOSAR and the hospital in Merced.
this was two years ago.
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