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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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May 10, 2012 - 09:13pm PT
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IMO, love is love, and commitment is commitment.
I okay with gay marriage, but this is the wrong argument. Say I am in love with a woman and a man. Can I marry them both? Is not that a "right?" Why should I have to decide? You might think my example absurd, but it comes down to why these kinds of decisions are best made state by state, rather than centralized Federal power.
States will approve gay marriage, and as they do other states will see the benefits and sign on. Or not.
Obama's statement is just posturing.
Hey did you all know that Dick Cheney (who is not running for office or raising money) took the same exact position, albeit with a more articulate and genuinely family oriented statement about 4 years ago?
Isn't Laura Bush also on the same page?
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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May 10, 2012 - 09:26pm PT
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MALEMUTE
YOU WERE RIGHT PAGES AND PAGES AGO
this country is going to the dogs
hear them yap yap yap
to the Russian singers with no songs
hear him ya yaaa ya yaaa
and to the priests with no prayers
hear the chant ya cant ya cant ya cant
mfm
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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May 10, 2012 - 09:40pm PT
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For the "Christians" here that are riding the fence and not sure about what The Good Book, The Holy Bible, The Living Word of GOD, what GOD says regarding Homosexuality and being "gay" . . .
Homosexuality: The Christian Perspective
Study By: Lehman Strauss
http://bible.org/article/homosexuality-christian-perspective
If you read this very thorough study, you will learn a great deal. GOD hates sin, but loves the sinner. We have an obligation to tell others what GOD says. Souls and eternity are on the line and in danger of being lost. GOD also holds us to account if we don't tell others of the danger. We are our brother's keeper.
If someone was driving toward a cliff and they didn't know it would you tell them about the danger ahead and tell them to stop? Of course you would. This is nothing different.
Edit:
WB, Lol. Ok, driving toward the edge of a cliff and in imminent danger of plunging off to their death . . . How's that?
Maybe bring a BASE rig right?
Lol.
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WBraun
climber
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May 10, 2012 - 09:47pm PT
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If someone was driving toward a cliff and they didn't know it would you tell them about the danger ahead and tell them to stop?
I would tell them to keep going as there's some bad ass new routes on that cliff.
Bring yer rope and racks boys .......
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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May 10, 2012 - 09:52pm PT
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So Klimmer, how does the Golden Rule apply in regards to equal rights?
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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May 10, 2012 - 09:54pm PT
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I have never been comfortable with someone else or a book telling me what God wants me to do. But that's just me. If God wants to tell me something he should go for it.
On topic - I think his hand was forced and he had to get it out on the table. I hope this is really his position and not just part of political strategy, but I am probably being naive.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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May 10, 2012 - 10:13pm PT
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What's funny is Romney comes right out and says he doesn't support equal rights even if it's not called marriage. AND reports of him harassing gays in high school come out at the same time (he is lying when he says he doesn't remember these episodes OR his memory is so bad he can't remember holding down and cutting someone's hair off in which case he doesn't have the mental faculties to be prez anyway), so any advantage Mitt would have got out of it he lost.
Certainly unbelievable that "he forgot" and nobody believes it. Almost too convenient timing for Obama. Did he know the gay bullying stories would come out now?
Fair enough in Politics and Romney could have responded anyway. At least he didn't totally deny but hey, we was accused by a doctor, a lawyer and some other professionals and their testimony's matched. one was even a Republican
Peace
Karl
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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May 10, 2012 - 10:28pm PT
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werner....be nice ;-) not everyone is ready to learn the lessons the universe repeats, over and over and over and over and...
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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May 10, 2012 - 10:31pm PT
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moossie +1 dingus says wack - sorry guiys i've been at the bar yappin
delete or No ? finger on the button...
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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May 10, 2012 - 10:51pm PT
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May 10, 2012 - 07:15pm PT
Yer god is weak Klimmer.
Any supreme being that can't do anything without the assistance of puny humans is a punter.
But what can you expect from an imaginary god??
Malemute,
To do so any other way would circumvent your free-will. You would be forced to believe. That wouldn't be right. GOD doesn't want robots. Nor does GOD want a son or daughter to turn on him and say, "We were just about to get it right all on our own, why did you interfere and violate our free-will?"
No, he has given us time to work it out, make our own mistakes, rope enough to hang ourselves as they say, and just in the nick of time when we are about to self-destruct GOD will come in and intercede and save the World.
He can then say, "I told you so. You should have listened to me from the very beginning. But you wanted to do it your way. Maybe, just maybe, being GOD I know far more than you. Perhaps you will now listen and do things my way?" At that point we'll be shaking our heads yes, in full agreement. Let's do it GOD's way. We are now more than convinced that he knows what he's talking about.
For you Malemute,
1 Corinthians 1:18 (KJV)
"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."
Romans 1:16
I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
1 Corinthians 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
1 Corinthians 1:23
but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
1 Corinthians 1:24
but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
1 Corinthians 1:25
For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.
1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
2 Corinthians 4:3
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.
2 Thessalonians 2:10
and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
Hebrews 12:2
Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
New International Version ©1984
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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May 10, 2012 - 10:54pm PT
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Why delete?
Are you losing the argument and you now want to go home taking the football with you?
So, you don't get along and play well with others?
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