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peggo
Trad climber
Carpinteria, CA
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Aug 17, 2011 - 11:39am PT
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I only just met and enjoyed visiting with the legendary Margee last summer; though missed her cookies by a day.
According to the Great Divide Ranger office, Margee is now stationed at Jordan Lookout.
When I called yesterday to ask for a mailing address to send cookies to Margee, I was told that as government employees they are not allowed to accept gifts. The administrator said that perhaps if anyone wants to help, there might be a foundation to contact later on. If anyone is interested, they can call 559.539.2607 x 0
RE: clean up. I was told be the administrator at the office yesterday that they have to arrange for a hazardous materials crew to clean up debris such as burned up batteries from the lookout, etc. At that time yesterday, there was no certain date.
Happy & Safe Climbing Everyone
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Jackalak
Trad climber
pasadena
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Aug 23, 2011 - 09:40pm PT
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Can someone give me an update on the status of this situation? I'd like to climb at the needles this weekend. I haven't been there before. My understanding from what I've read in the posts is that the upper road 21S05, is closed, as is the trail starting at the end of this road. Also, the Magician is closed for climbing. Is this still correct?
With that in mind, is it possible right now to climb the other formations? I haven't been to the needles before. Can you access the needles by parking somewhere on the lower road, 22S82? Is the trail starting at that road open or have they closed that too, how do you find that trail? I read somewhere someone said the ranger district said "all of the needles are closed". But I was wondering if they are actually closing off the south east part and if anyone has tried climbing there....
If there is a way to climb there, I'd also like to hear other people's opinions of where to camp with respect to what roads are open now...
Also, if there is no way to climb at the needles right now, where should i climb instead in that general area. Would be looking for routes 5.9-11a. Dome rock Maybe? Any other ideas?
thanks!
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 23, 2011 - 11:44pm PT
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I was told on the phone by someone at Western Divide Ranger District that it is a total area closure. But, access from the lower road, say for Voodoo Dome or The Needles upper (if you don't mind big time hiking) is in a different ranger district: Cannell.
So.
I don't know if the two districts are coordinating on the closure. I suspect not.
I am thinking of being there on Friday and hiking up to the upper area with some binoculars and scoping out what is happenning there. That will be too late to let you know what's up.
My best guess is that approaching from the bottom is cool as long as you avoid Magician. There is nice roadside camping right by Needle Rock Creek. 22S82 crosses the creek about 13 miles in. The trail to Voodoo is clearly visible leaving the road about 150 yds N of the creek. About 100 yds in there is a fork. Take the left fork if you are looking for White Punks On Dope, the right goes up to the dihedrals area.
If the email from your profile works check it.
KS
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Aug 24, 2011 - 12:07am PT
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I heard they don't need the towers anymore for spotting fires, and the Needles lookout served mostly as a radio backup for firefighting.
The volunteers that man the lookouts in SoCal still are the first to call in on some fires.
When I read The Dharma Bums (?) the story of Jack Kerouc on Mt. Baker had me wanting to go do the same. The section in Peaks and poets about Gary Snyder manning his lookout is great reading.
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Sheik aka JD
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Aug 24, 2011 - 09:11pm PT
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Last week I was ready to a throw an LA gym climber poseur girl into the Pacific Ocean.
I overheard her in the lead area, talking about a Needles 4th of July climbing trip. A few minutes later when I was near her, I asked her if the roads were open that weekend due to this year's high snow-pack. I had intended to climb there that particular weekend, but didn't go due to (as I understood it) the road still being closed.
She gave me attitude; stated, "Uh...I don't know what road YOU take, but the one WE took was fine. But uggggh; sooo many mosquitos..."
A little later, I asked her if she was aware of the lookout burning.
She looked at me as if I was (again) lying to her. I explained that the lookout was historic, that we all deeply care for Margee, and that the cause was unknown.
She then stated, "Do they KNOW whose fault it was? That woman up there seemed like a smoker. I just bet it was her."
Man, I had to bite my tongue and walk away from that punk @ss chick.
I'm uncertain which of her boyfriends dragged her up some Needles intro routes, but he should school her on the history and reverence for our Needles (and Margee)...
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rincon
Trad climber
SoCal
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Future Of Needles Fire Lookout Tower Pending
http://www.turnto23.com/news/28989296/detail.html
There are many steps to consider and complete should the Forest Service propose to construct a new tower. An assessment of the rock and foundation where the tower once sat would be necessary to determine its integrity to support a new structure. New building requirements would need to be researched and considered in any design. An environmental analysis and documentation with public review would be required. Funding for a replacement tower and the planning efforts it would require to complete will be considered. “All of this cannot be completed quickly,” stated Summers.
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ec
climber
ca
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Thx for the article link.
 ec
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Even though it the tower was there historically, it does not exempt us from having to conduct analysis and public involvement for any proposed actions at the site.”
Bureaucrat code for,
We aren't even considering rebuilding it
This isn't gonna get done without pressure from some congresscritters.
Last week I was up the South Fork of Big Pine Creek. The Forest Circus removed the log bridge claiming it was damaged in an avalanche this winter.
There was absolutely no sign of a slide big enough to move a three foot diameter log. Trees above the bridge location didn't have as much as a broken twig and there's no evidence of the log being washed down into the adjoining trees and brush. The abutments are as sound as the day they were put in.
What ever the real agenda for removing it, the public was lied to.
Point being, the only way the lookout is going back up is with direct political pressure.
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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The Needles Lookout
“Porterville, Needles, Emergency Traffic. The roof of the lookout is on fire and I need immediate assistance.”
With those words, Margee Kelly called in the most important smoke report of her career. An ember from the wood stove landed on the shake roof of The Needles Fire Lookout sparking a fire that quickly spread along the roof and eventually into the attic. Grabbing the fire extinguisher Margee fought to put the fire out, even climbing up on a ladder placed on the catwalk in an attempt to get closer to the blaze.
Sequoia Forest Helicopter 522 launched from the Peppermint Helibase in a matter of minutes dropping several buckets of water on the structure in what Margee calls “a heroic effort to save the lookout.” Unfortunately, their efforts were in vain.
Margee and her two grandchildren, who were visiting her at the time, escaped without injury, and stood helpless as they watched their beloved tower succumb to the fire.
http://www.buckrock.org/Needles.html
http://blog.touchstoneclimbing.com/2011/08/help-rebuild-needles-outlook.html
Sad to see it go.
Here's a link to Forest Fire Lookout News:
http://www.firelookout.org/news.htm
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 7, 2011 - 12:16am PT
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I would love to see an authentic restoration of the lookout. District Ranger Summer's remarks seem to indicate that will not happen. A more modern lookout will never be built due to the restrictions imposed by the National HIstoric Preservations Act. Her comments look to me like a setup for doing nothing.
For climbers at this point in time the more important consideration is this. Without the high volume of hikers going to visit the tower, one of the most popular destination in the Nat Monument, will the road 21S05 be maintained and opened?
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ec
climber
ca
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Sep 13, 2011 - 12:54am PT
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For climbers at this point in time the more important consideration is this. Without the high volume of hikers going to visit the tower, one of the most popular destination in the Nat Monument, will the road 21S05 be maintained and opened? -Ksolem
Let's think of the possibility of suggesting that a 'railed viewing platform,' not a full-on lookout to be the replacement structure. It could still remain a hiker destination that would lend to the road being maintained. Keeping this destination alive, would be good for the local economy as well. A lesser structure might have less restrictions for building, ya think?
'Just thought I'd run it past you guys.
ec
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Dog
climber
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Sep 13, 2011 - 05:26pm PT
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WHAT? no more cookies on Sunday?
This is horrible! Glad everyone is ok,
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 13, 2011 - 06:22pm PT
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Bureaucrat code for,
We aren't even considering rebuilding it
There is a little something called the National Environmental Policy Act, aka NEPA. Every federal action (i.e. that involves fed funding, requires fed approval such as permitting, or direct fed action) requires analysis for env impacts. This isn't "code" for anything, it's "the law".
This analysis can be as simple as filling out a form in 30 seconds and applying/documenting existing categorical exclusions that cover broad classes of actions with low to minimal impacts or as complex as multi-year, several hundred page long Environmental Impact Statements for actions with significant impacts.
Unfortunately in this case, categorical exclusions are developed by agency. For another agency, you may see a category that exemtps some category like: "installing on previously developed land, equipment that does not substantially alter land use", that could probably be applied to replacing a fire tower. But the FS does not have an extensive set of CATEX categories and likely nothing to cover this kind of action, so they would be perfoming an Environmental Assessment.
That said, when writing EAs for permit actions in another agency, I could crank them out in a week or two depending on other workload and complexity of the project. Add about three months of internal, public, and agency review, legal review etc. If the agency had the funding and will to replace the structure, they could easily have NEPA aspects covered by contruction season next year.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 13, 2011 - 06:47pm PT
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Hi ElCap,
Hey what do you know about NHPA (Nat. historic preservation act) and it's California offshoot, The Office of Historic Preservation?
I ask because the scoop I am getting from insiders is that the USFS is in favor of a restoration effort but that the NHPA and OHP could make the effort virtually impossible by requiring exact authenticity down to things like hinges and nails.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 13, 2011 - 07:33pm PT
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I do a fair amount of work directly on issues like that Kris...renovations, demolitions, etc of listed buildings within a Historic District.
It's a convoluted process. Sec 106 of the NHPA governs it all, but it brings in state actors to the process (the State Historic Preservation Officer - SHPO) as well as fed actors (ACHP- Advisory Council on Historic Properties). At the end of the day, the SHPO can't compel you to do anything other than go through the Sec106 process of consulting with them and then getting ACHP involved in mediating if you can't resolve adverse effects within consultation.
There tends to be a lot of confusion over what "SHPO will allow", when they really don't have the power to compel action one way or another. They consult and offer recommendations, and if you don't please them it can draw the process out, but there is a final remedy available to the agency to simply say in effect "we are unable to resolve issues and reach a MOA in consultation, so we are proceeding with the project without resolving adverse effects.
But from a practical standpoint, my interactions with Cal SHPO in particular is that they don't like to see replicas because it can confuse what is actually historic from what is modern/replacement/replica. Say we are building a new structure within a historical district where the period architechture is all 1930s Mission Revival. They like to see buildings that are clearly distinct and of the time period of their contstruction, yet sympathetic to the other historical buildings look within the district. So not "replica" but modern within the same general style and overall appearance (in my example, say tan stucco exteriors and clay tile roof). In this case you're dealing with an individual structure rather than blending into a district, but the overall reasoning about why they dislike replica is likely similar.
Cal SHPO doesn't have local or regional offices, those guys are all up in Sac. The process can be a PITA, but the folks that work there are nice enough folks IME.
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spsmc
Mountain climber
Swall Meadows,CA
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Sep 29, 2011 - 01:18pm PT
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Last week I was up the South Fork of Big Pine Creek. The Forest Circus removed the log bridge claiming it was damaged in an avalanche this winter.
There was absolutely no sign of a slide big enough to move a three foot diameter log. Trees above the bridge location didn't have as much as a broken twig and there's no evidence of the log being washed down into the adjoining trees and brush. The abutments are as sound as the day they were put in.
What ever the real agenda for removing it, the public was lied to.
Barking up the wrong pine tree here TGT and no lies.
Below is a photo of the broken log across the South Fork of Big Pine Creek from last June. Yes, the abutments are fine but the log was smashed by either avalanche or the high spring floods. It was originally prepped and then flown in under a heli since there is not a log this size within any distance of the crossing. With federal budgets the way they are and the Inyo having no trail crew it is unlikely to be fixed the same way anytime soon, although the FS recognizes that this is an important trail and needs to be fixed - a lot of money for what seems to be a simple log crossing.
Be like Clyde and wade it.
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justin01
Trad climber
sacramento
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Oct 20, 2011 - 11:48pm PT
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Sorry if I am poisoning the well here.
I have experienced a fair amount of tomfoolery with the S. Sequoia FS. Generally, their MO is limit access to limit their work. It may be because of lack of funding, or picking up too many dirty diapers, but I have been lied to on many occasions by this arm of the FS. I can think of more than a few instances of blatant lies and disregarding of duty, so count me in the skeptical group.
Caveat. I have met good rangers there who wish to do the right things, but their upper direction is corrupt, in my opinion.
If I had to deal with some of their "customers" I would be more than a little jaded myself. The general user group in this area is pretty upsetting. Then again, there is free camping pretty much everywhere, and the general lack of rules and regulations is probably what makes this area one of the best in CA.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Oct 20, 2011 - 11:48pm PT
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Notice that there's absolutely no lateral displacement.
It wasn't flooding or an avalanche that did it.
Insect damage?
The wading was invigorating.
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