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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jan 31, 2011 - 08:44pm PT
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Wow!
When did they mail those?
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jan 31, 2011 - 08:47pm PT
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Thanks Anders. So we know that the bolting was immediately front and center news of the ascent. I wonder when Mountain 13 when to press. Seems likely that it was in December. I'll ask Ken Wilson. Maybe he will remember.
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Gene
climber
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Jan 31, 2011 - 08:48pm PT
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In this historical timeline, when was Maestri first accused of fraud on the 'FA' of CT? Ken Wilson was the editor of Mountain at the time of the quote MH cites above about the 1,000 bolts. How many bolts were placed on the Compressor Route?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jan 31, 2011 - 09:07pm PT
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Having been on the Compressor Route (actually the compressor itself) only to begin a heinous descent in hurricane force winds when less than 200 ft. from the summit. I can tell you that there are a lot of bolts, but nowhere near a thousand. Of the 27 pitches from the "bus" 20 are real climbing mostly devoid of bolts and 7 are heavily bolted. Not, by any means, defending a route that I would like to see eradicated but just setting the record straight.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jan 31, 2011 - 09:07pm PT
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The 1959 ascent was questioned before 1970, principally because no one else could do the route and because Maestri's story kept changing. I understand that Maestri returned in 1971 in part as a reaction to the disbelief on the 1959 ascent.
I think the bolt count was 360. Not the 1000 that Mountain reports.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jan 31, 2011 - 09:11pm PT
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Roger, no one else even "tried" the 1959 Route until John Bragg, Jay Wilson and I climbed it on the way to the Col of Conquest during our first ascent of Torre Egger in 1976.
edit: The 1959 Route turned out to be less than 1000 feet long as there high point was the triangular shaped ice field. No way did they climb to the Col of Conquest. .
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Royal Robbins
Trad climber
Modesto, California
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Thanks, Roger. I know I posted the same message twice. Trouble is I don't know how to delete. Best Regards,
Royal
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Don Lauria
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Let's get this straight. In my conversations with Royal prior to the 2nd ascent of WEML, Royal said we were going to remove bolts. I, in my naivete, thought that meant "unnecessary" bolts. After Royal chopped all the bolts on the first pitch I realized what we were up to.
I explained all this in a letter to Warren which he published in his book Downward Bound - read it on www.yosemiteclimbing.org/category/stories/don-lauria.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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I guess it might depend somewhat on the definition of "un."
Royal, I am guessing that the "Edit" button disappeared from your post-that has a box that allows you to delete a post. The "Edit" buttons are supposed to stay active for some period of time-days-but sometimes there is a bug and the button disappears immediately.
I received an interesting response from Ken Wilson. He hasn't lost any of his fervor. He says he is too tied up to join in directly just now; I asked if I can post his note. I hope so. Having Ken weigh in on these discussion would be great.
Sunny but cold in San Antonio.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Ok, this has officially surpassed the "Hottest female athlete" and "Ladies on Portaleges" as the best thread ever.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I dunno.
How can we work in a little tasteful toe?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Tell Ken it involves bolts, El Capitan, and Cerro Torre. If necessary, improvise.
Like waving a red flag in front of a bull.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Ken is the paradigm example of an armchair mountaineer, but he's very knowledgeable.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Red capes and bulls doesn’t quiet do it justice, Anders.
Ken's response included theories on the reasons Warren climbed the WEML, connections to Royal's Tis-sa-ack and Warren's and Galen's South Face of Half Dome, relationship between the NA Wall and WEML, how it ties back to Leaning Tower (He had read Royal's new book), why it is not connected to the Compressor Route, how Harding and Maestri had similiar personalities (but Harding is honest), the 1959 route, the personalities of Maistri and Fava and Mountain's interviews, who else tried to climb CT and how they might have succeeded had they not dropped their bolt kit, Bridwell's climb on CT, what should be done now to the Compressor Route, the resulting injustice to Daniele Chiappa, Mario Conti, Casimiro Ferrari, and Pino Negri who first climbed CT in 1974, the hottest female athletes, how portaledge sex trumps bolting, and something about toes.
It really would be fun if Ken joined in. SuperTopo is the perfect place for knowledgeable armchair climbers.
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MH2
climber
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Might be time to pipe up and say how hugely influential Mountain under Ken Wilson was BITD, for some. Atmospheric architecturally-informed photography and good writing. I also remember seeing him and Doug Scott talk to the AAC one time in Manhattan, circa 1972. Props.
And that Cerro Torre thing.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Likewise - Mountain was the magazine to read in the 1970s. Always current, good photography, a bit Anglo-centric, strong if sometimes slightly out of touch editorial stances (Ken's anti-chalk 'crusade' comes to mind), good stable of writers and correspondents.
Glad to hear that Ken hasn't changed much, not that it was likely he would. If he wasn't editing Mountain and other climbing publications, he'd have made a good editor or editorial writer for The Guardian.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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A lot of people see the chopping incident on the wall of early morning light as a negative thing, but I think it was an excellent model for how to deal with ethical/style issues for a very subjective situation.
Warren had the right to put up a route where and how he wanted.
Royal had the right to 'erase' that route if he climbed it and it didn't justify all the bolts.
Royal was very brave to not only decide to chop the route in the first place, but even braver to stop removing the bolts and talk about it afterwords.
You can't judge a climb from it's topo. Something the Wings of Steel detractors didn't seem to realize.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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This is a summary of Ken Wilson’s comments on WEML, Compressor Route, and the 1959 route.
Ken expresses the opinion that Harding’s ascent of WELM was in part an attempt to stay on the face long enough to attract the attention of the press. And, as compared to the North American wall, WEML was a backward step in Yosemite style.
Ken points out that Maestri chopped a handful of the upper bolts on the Compressor Route while descending. At Pataclimb.com Rolando Garibotti writes, “On the last 30 meters of the headwall Bridwell was forced to climb difficult aid, placing rivets, knifeblades and copperheads where Maestri, as a “coup de grace” to his “masterpiece”, had chopped his last 8 bolts while descending.” In Ken’s opinion, the route should be stripped. Garibotti wites, “There are only two independent lines to access its very summit, one via the infamous Compressor route –along the SE ridge-, and the other by the more esthetic, natural, fairer Ragni route in the west face. Although the mountain has been climbed from the north, that line joins the Ragni route for the last three pitches and hence it is not an independent line. More than 95 % of the ascents have been done via the Compressor route, a via ferrata of sorts with more than 300 bolts in place. Why people bother with that route instead of hiring a helicopter to the top is anyone’s guess, since both are equally unsporting ways to climb the peak. 2008 was the first year when more parties climbed the Ragni route than the Compressor route.”
In 1968, Haston, Burke, Crew , Boysen and FonRouge attempted the Cerro Torre SE Ridge (the general ridge of the Compressor Route, I think). Ken reports “… they would have got higher had they not dropped the bolt kit and may well have found a feasible route to the top (possibly linking up and summiting by the West Face-- later the first ascent Route).“ That team “…came back very sceptical about Maestri's and Fava's 1959 claims. And the matter developed first in Italy with Carlo Mauri being very sceptical about the 1959 ascent.”
Ken wrote, “…like Harding, Maestri loved to be anti-establishment and his Bolt Route was both a massive provocation and an attempt to upstage his own 1959 claim on the other side of the peak.“ However, ”The WEML and the Compressor routes are not really comparable in that nobody doubted what Harding and his partner had done.”
Mountain interviewed Maestri on both the Compressor route and the 1959 route. Ken doesn’t believe there are any plausible accounts from Maestri or Fava on the ascent. The controversy surrounding Maestri has served to “…obfuscate the 1974 first ascent by Ferrari/Conti/Negri and Chiappa who have never been properly feted in Italy for their success by the West Face.”
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Thanks, Roger!
Red capes and bulls doesn’t quiet do it justice, Anders.
Now that is a Freudian slip, or something. Possibly the first time in history that the adjective "quiet" has been used in relation to Ken, even if accidentally.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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It appears that somebody still has an axe to grind.
Or would that be a chisel?
(I wonder if Ken has read the potential erasure thread or if, for that matter, he'd be at all swayed by it.)
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